.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Castle Rock]

I prefer the simpler lines of the Gen 1. I have a buddy who traded me his OD Predator stock for my tan Ranch stock. He somehow believes that he got the better end of the deal. lol

Yep, the new stock is a big step backwards

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

I personally and several friends have had good success with 223 on white tail. But he’s shooting something huge here. I’ve listen to him allot he’s a big fan of magnums with monos.
This doesn’t discourage me though. I’ve still don’t have an issue with using 223 on deer. I have never hunted elk so I don’t have experience there.

TLDW: dude is clueless, as are most of his viewers.

 

[YaakRiver]

TLDW: dude is clueless, as are most of his viewers.

While I don't agree with him, I don't think it's productive to refer to him/them as clueless. He's handled more firearms than most and has experience with different cartridges than most. He's hunted the world and killed a lot of big game animals. He provides a lot of solid info, especially for new hunters. He's intelligent and articulate. He just doesn't see things the way that you or I do.

The "how much gun is enough" conversation is far better served by evidence and statistics than by insults.

... and yesterday my brother added to that statistic by killing a bull at 401 yards with a 77 gr TMK which broke a rib on the entrance and penetrated the scapula on the off-side.

 

[River Reaper]

75gr ELD-M at approximately 2700fps impact velocity. Doe lurched and then death ran about 60 yards. I’ve never seen blood come out of the eye and ear before. Bullet entered in the crease and severed the top of the aorta and shredded the lungs before exiting. A friend was downrange and off to the side of the deer (unknowingly… stuff happens..) and listened to the bullet zing through the deer and smack a tree about 40 yards behind it. I would’ve been curious to know what that bullet looked like after passing through as it hit the tree.

Eye:


Ear:


Entrance:



Exit:

 

[glock233]

While I don't agree with him, I don't think it's productive to refer to him/them as clueless. He's handled more firearms than most and has experience with different cartridges than most. He's hunted the world and killed a lot of big game animals. He provides a lot of solid info, especially for new hunters. He's intelligent and articulate. He just doesn't see things the way that you or I do.

The "how much gun is enough" conversation is far better served by evidence and statistics than by insults.

... and yesterday my brother added to that statistic by killing a bull at 401 yards with a 77 gr TMK which broke a rib on the entrance and penetrated the scapula on the off-side.

He's clueless on this issue. Some of the worst information comes from the most experienced people.

Maybe worse than clueless. Look at the ridiculous scenario he had to create to get TMK to underperform. A beef shoulder knuckle? Hidden by 200% more muscle than is actually there on the biggest elk?

 

[Deere_Man]

While I don't agree with him, I don't think it's productive to refer to him/them as clueless. He's handled more firearms than most and has experience with different cartridges than most. He's hunted the world and killed a lot of big game animals. He provides a lot of solid info, especially for new hunters. He's intelligent and articulate. He just doesn't see things the way that you or I do.

The "how much gun is enough" conversation is far better served by evidence and statistics than by insults.

... and yesterday my brother added to that statistic by killing a bull at 401 yards with a 77 gr TMK which broke a rib on the entrance and penetrated the scapula on the off-side.

I don’t think he is positioned far enough away from the gel for it to be a good test. It seems like he’s at 15 or 20 yards. I’d like to see this same test with him at 100 yards.

 

[Good Stuff]

 

[nm.otter]

I don’t think he is positioned far enough away from the gel for it to be a good test.

Opening frame shows clear gel. Pass...

 

[Bowfinn]

He's clueless on this issue. Some of the worst information comes from the most experienced people.

Maybe worse than clueless. Look at the ridiculous scenario he had to create to get TMK to underperform. A beef shoulder knuckle? Hidden by 200% more muscle than is actually there on the biggest elk?

I disagree, I think the Von Benedikts may have a bit of experience with this particular topic. However, I don’t find any value in optimizing my bullets for shooting animals in the legs.

 

[YukonCorneliusAurelius]

Hey folks! Long time reader, first time poster! I’ve made it to page 504 of this absolute tome, but I have to interrupt my reading to share a data point of my own! I shot my first elk yesterday morning with my suppressed Tikka 223 and 77 tmk handloads, muzzle velocity 2769. The first shot was just was in the right shoulder, kind of high lung, high shoulder placement. The second shot was in the left shoulder, in through the blade and through the lungs. The third shot was quartering away on the right side, through the liver and into the lungs again. All three shots penetrated through the whole body cavity and were caught by the hide or in the opposite shoulder. All three shots were at 400 yds, and all three shots would have been very quick kill shots on their own. That said, the bull was still standing, so he caught 3 shots in 15 seconds and dropped. Total distance traveled from the first shot was about 10 yds.

Now, for the pictures! Caption will be below the picture.


He’s a funky 5x3 raghorn but I’m stoked. Also, stickers stay on for accuracy.


Front right shoulder. You can see the entrance from the 3rd shot quite clearly. The first shot entrance was hard to find in all the chaos under the shoulder.


The crudely drawn “1” above the upper left yellow circle is the first shot. The other 2 circles are the exits from shot number 2.


That’s another picture of the exit of shot number 2. It broke 2 ribs on its way out.


Same side with the ribs removed. Big hole in the near side lung and nothing left of the left side lung.



That’s the bullet I’ve found so far. Caught the hide and bounced back. Jacket and core separated.

 

[YukonCorneliusAurelius]

This is the exit from shot #.


Shoulder removed and we find the exits of shots 1 and 3 from the body cavity.


The bloodshot on the left side was unreal. I peeled the first layer of meat off to find even more jello.


Shattered ribs all over the place. The backstraps survived though!


Massive holes in the remaining lung tissue. This bull was very dead.

To wrap up, I am very impressed with how those tiny, frangible bullets performed on this elk. I’m a little sad that I lost so much meat and anticipate losing more when I butcher the front shoulders. However, I wouldn’t trade being able to watch all 3 impacts through the scope and being able to follow up so accurately and quickly for less meat damage. It’s a great shooting system.

 

[PNWGATOR]

After seeing first hand the wound channels created by optimized projectiles out of a .223 delivered above 1800fps, most people don’t want ‘more’ tissue damage!

Congratulations and thank you for sharing your success and experience and having the confidence to take the system afield.

 

[YukonCorneliusAurelius]

After seeing first hand the wound channels created by optimized projectiles out of a .223 delivered above 1800fps, most people don’t want ‘more’ tissue damage!

Congratulations and thank you for sharing your success and experience and having the confidence to take the system afield.

Thanks OP! I really appreciate you starting this thread! It’s been very instructive. The estimated impact velocity of those bullets was 2072 fps, and boy did they do work!

 

[43.6N]

View attachment 957532
This is the exit from shot #.

View attachment 957533
Shoulder removed and we find the exits of shots 1 and 3 from the body cavity.

View attachment 957534
The bloodshot on the left side was unreal. I peeled the first layer of meat off to find even more jello.

View attachment 957536
Shattered ribs all over the place. The backstraps survived though!

View attachment 957537
Massive holes in the remaining lung tissue. This bull was very dead.

To wrap up, I am very impressed with how those tiny, frangible bullets performed on this elk. I’m a little sad that I lost so much meat and anticipate losing more when I butcher the front shoulders. However, I wouldn’t trade being able to watch all 3 impacts through the scope and being able to follow up so accurately and quickly for less meat damage. It’s a great shooting system.

Top tier dissection. You sure that’s your first elk?

 

[YukonCorneliusAurelius]

Top tier dissection. You sure that’s your first elk?

That is my first elk, yes. I’ve been lucky enough to get to help pack out 7 elk before this one, so I’ve had a bit of practice.

 

[BLJ]

the bull was still standing, so he caught 3 shots in 15 seconds

We’d get along just fine.

Congratulations.

 

[Pharmseller]

We’d get along just fine.

Congratulations.

If they’re still standing, I’m still shooting.

 

[YukonCorneliusAurelius]

If they’re still standing, I’m still shooting.

Exactly

 

[HighUintas]

Im relatively disappointed in the velocity I get from my 16" 223 barrel. What's the cure?

 

[Schmo]

Im relatively disappointed in the velocity I get from my 16" 223 barrel. What's the cure?

What velocity with what bullet?