.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[WheatWhacker]

I was once confidently in the crowd of people that believed 223 was too small to reliably take anything bigger than coyotes. Reading though this thread and seeing the mountain of evidence contrary to that was very eye opening. It really made me realize that bullet selection and placement matters far more than any energy numbers or bullet diameter.

I cannot fathom how a person could read this thread and see all the pictures and still honestly say that the 77 TMK is not up to the task of efficiently taking down big game. The people who do have either; not actually read or comprehended the text posts, not looked at the pictures, or are so stubborn and unwilling to learn that no amount of words, pictures, studies, or anything will ever change their mind. Unfortunately for them, they are the ones missing out. As for me, I see many rounds of 77 TMK in my future.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[TheGDog]

The ones you're talking about all "suffer" from "TL: DR" (Too Long, Didn't Read) syndrome.

 

[LimeSpoon]

Do awfully hate to ask, but it looks like I missed out on some of those sales and I'm planning a hog hunt in the next month. If anyone's willing to quote me a price on some Black Hills or 8208...and I live in the Cstat area, if there's anyone local.

Now, I know this is just some more pole-vaulting over mouse turds, but I'm thinking of trying to build up a ladder to 23.8 gr of 8208XBR loaded to 2.26" OAL. Will be fired in a 5.56 chamber. Any estimates as to velocity out of a 16" barrel with a 23.8 gr charge? Worries about overpressure? Anyone observe any horizontal (or substantial vertical) POI shift with 8208 handloads as compared to the Black Hills stuff? Not terribly interested in rezeroing my scope every time I switch between the two.

 

[Castle Rock]

Do awfully hate to ask, but it looks like I missed out on some of those sales and I'm planning a hog hunt in the next month. If anyone's willing to quote me a price on some Black Hills or 8208...and I live in the Cstat area, if there's anyone local.

Now, I know this is just some more pole-vaulting over mouse turds, but I'm thinking of trying to build up a ladder to 23.8 gr of 8208XBR loaded to 2.26" OAL. Will be fired in a 5.56 chamber. Any estimates as to velocity out of a 16" barrel with a 23.8 gr charge? Worries about overpressure? Anyone observe any horizontal (or substantial vertical) POI shift with 8208 handloads as compared to the Black Hills stuff? Not terribly interested in rezeroing my scope every time I switch between the two.

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/load-development-my-method.238981/#post-2335181
I wouldn’t waste time doing a ladder
I would load a handful and see what they do

 

[260madman]

Just load the 23.7 and shoot. I shot 3 round .75” yesterday on my lightweight AR with Criterion barrel. Shot from a bench with my pack underneath it. I should have shot a couple of 10 round groups but I didn’t want to reload anymore because Saturday is the day and I have to load some 260Rem for my wife’s rifle. That’s the third AR I’ve shot them from and the first time from a bench, they all shoot well.

I shot my 10.5” AR the same way yesterday and it shot 3 different bullet types to the same POI at 100 yards. Simple Zeiss V4 1-4 Scope on top, my HD gun. I may get to post a pic with a dead critter from that one using 60gr NBTs. I have a long time to shoot doe this year and plan on taking a few.

 

[Shraggs]

Yep, I followed advice here actually ordered from unknown munitions exactly the form special, 23.7.

I’m doing 12 shot zeros all the time, good practice in field positions. 223 doesn’t seem picky.

funny, many 4 shot clips I have 1/4” groups but by time I shot 3 clips consecutive by group was 1.25”. Damn form

Load or buy it, shoot for solid zero, go kill

 

[Juan_ID]

5.56X45MM NATO 77GR TIPPED MATCHKING AMMO | Brownells

Whether you are varmint hunting, target shooting or on duty protecting our country, Black Hills 5.56x45mm 77gr Tipped MatchKing Factory New Ammo is designed to provide you with optimum results. Black Hills is known through the shooting industry fo...

www.brownells.com

code “RTC” gets you a discount

 

[260madman]

About 200 yards. Shredded lungs. Hit a tad high but I’m proud of her. 77gr TMK.

 

[260madman]

Lazered the range this morning. 227 yards.
Entrance through the shoulder



Offside behind shoulder. Might go look in the gut pile for the bullet.

 

[PNWGATOR]

What bullet?

 

[BigNate]

I'm thinking this .223/ 77gr TMK combo leads to "over-gunned" type performance.

This doe turned as the shot broke, and the damage was ridiculous.

 

[260madman]

What bullet?

The 77 TMK (see post above rib cage pics) that didn’t make it through the offside hide. There’s no lump under the hide anywhere. Ive had bullets not make it through and bounce inside the chest cavity and find them in the blood by the gut pile. I looked a bit ago and couldn’t find it but it’s been since last night and stuff is gooey and thick even when poking around in it.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Sounds like the internal damage was massive, despite no exit.

 

[Shraggs]

Looking at the exit hole, is it possible I did exit via small perforation?

 

[260madman]

No. I was poking around that area this morning.

I was hoping for a perfect broadside shot for her but this buck came out to our right. Quartering to shoulder it is then. The lungs were punched through the center and jello was inside the chest because of it.

 

[Billogna]

My biggest whitetail buck to date!! 77 grain TMK @ 100 yards…. 16” AR 15 2600 at the muzzle. Lungs were jelly… I’ll have more info when I get him skinned out. Thanks for the inspiration!! It was a bit of rodeo of a season for me but this is a great capper!! A sneaky mature 8 point… I’m already planning the AR build for my boys to hunt with!!

11/23/21 Edited to add: I'm a late bloomer getting started hunting. I've only been at it about 5 years or so. So I know I've got a lot to learn. But I pick up bits where I can but I also tend to learn the hard way (lol). 11/21/21 Approx 4:45 pm Broadside shot. First shot was high double lung. Mule kicked and hopped. I thought at first he was gut shot (I know now that is a good sign of vitals hit) so I hit him again. This time he hunched his back (gut shot) and made for the thick stuff. I lost sight of him before he entered the brush. I waited and listened for a few seconds and was positive I heard him crash down and thrash a few seconds after that, BUT in my head I had just gut shot this deer TWICE and was SURE he was headed for the next county to bed down and die. I could PUKE!! So, torn between what I know I heard, and what I was afraid of I got my 6 y.o. son out of the truck and headed into the track job. A little fearful I might push him but almost certain I heard him go down. After about an hour of searching it was full dark and time to get my son home for dinner and get a better flashlight. Did you know it takes about 90 minutes for adrenaline to completely exit your system?? Sounds about right. It wasn't until about 30 minutes or so into the second attempt that I REALLY started honestly, and calmly replaying the scene in my head. And I KNEW now that he was indeed down on that first brushy hillside somewhere. At exactly 8:15 pm I found him tangled in a wild rose thicket at the edge of the brush, in the opposite direction of where I thought he ran, and only about 40 yards from where I shot him. No exit wounds. I'm pretty sure the high vitals shot lodged in the off side hide but I won't know until this weekend when I can dress him out. The gut shot was minor, thankfully very little nasty stuff in the body cavity to deal with. I'm just relieved he didn't suffer. So it's a decisive win for the 77 TMK, and a HUGE leaning experience for me.

 

[Thisisdenny]

Pricy… but MidwayUSA does have 77gr TMK bullets and black hills loaded ammo in stock right now.

 

[Lawnboi]

Pricy… but MidwayUSA does have 77gr TMK bullets and black hills loaded ammo in stock right now.

Mid south has 100 boxes of tmk as well.

Powder seems to be the biggest hangup as of lately.

 

[307]

Perhaps it's been asked before but how does the MatchKing compare to the TMK in the same weights?

Similar or a different animal altogether?

 

[LimeSpoon]

Perhaps it's been asked before but how does the MatchKing compare to the TMK in the same weights?

Similar or a different animal altogether?

Less consistent, longer neck, much higher velocity needed to deform, tends to be less explosive at all velocities though the difference becomes more pronounced as it approaches its frag threshold. Generally depends on yaw to initiate upset rather than the more reliable mechanism of hydraulic expansion. Still works for the most part, but considerably less optimized for terminal performance.

On the plus side, they may penetrate a bit more.