.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Fartrell Cluggins]

Higher quality finish, action and safety control. Better quality synth stock, with reverse comb for non-prone shooting and dosent feel plastic like tikka. Better balance. Both have equally nice adj. triggers. Sauer builds all rifles from the plain version to the Maharajah version to shoot 5 shot 1 moa with all brand name factory ammo. They will shoot 1/4 moa with right ammo. Hold poa of aim even when so hot will burn skin off your hand. Their barrels on 100 model are heat swaged into recvr so not removable but thats what sets them in affordable price range vs all their other switch barrel models with super wood and mirror bluing. Sauer dosent cut corners on the 100 for the metal part of the build. I have never had to swap barrels in my hunting rifles so for me not an issue. Tikkas have better re-sale because most dont understand the Sauer line thx to marketing and gun forum conformity. Not knocking the Tikka but for the money I would suggest reading up looking at Sauer. They are more unique and come from great gun making lineage.

The Sauer 100 steps away from the traditional European model in favor of the American method. Its barrel is screwed and torqued into the receiver just like we prefer. However, Sauer isn't content to just do what everyone over here does, either.

Sauer 100 Bolt-Action Rifle Review - Guns and Ammo

The Sauer 100 embodies refinement, affordability and accuracy.

www.gunsandammo.com

 

[amassi]

Higher quality finish, action and safety control. Better quality synth stock, with reverse comb for non-prone shooting and dosent feel plastic like tikka. Better balance. Both have equally nice adj. triggers. Sauer builds all rifles from the plain version to the Maharajah version to shoot 5 shot 1 moa with all brand name factory ammo. They will shoot 1/4 moa with right ammo. Hold poa of aim even when so hot will burn skin off your hand. Their barrels on 100 model are heat swaged into recvr so not removable but thats what sets them in affordable price range vs all their other switch barrel models with super wood and mirror bluing. Sauer dosent cut corners on the 100 for the metal part of the build. I have never had to swap barrels in my hunting rifles so for me not an issue. Tikkas have better re-sale because most dont understand the Sauer line thx to marketing and gun forum conformity. Not knocking the Tikka but for the money I would suggest reading up looking at Sauer. They are more unique and come from great gun making lineage.

So, they're subjectively a step up. Given this thread is about hunting with 223 rem and Mostly the 77gr tmk Sauers choice of 1:10 twist removes them from contention.

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[Formidilosus]

Higher quality finish, action and safety control.

How is the finish quality different?

Better quality synth stock, with reverse comb for non-prone shooting and dosent feel plastic like tikka.

They’re exactly the same material. The butt design is improved over the T3 however.

Better balance. Both have equally nice adj. triggers. Sauer builds all rifles from the plain version to the Maharajah version to shoot 5 shot 1 moa with all brand name factory ammo. They will shoot 1/4 moa with right ammo. Hold poa of aim even when so hot will burn skin off your hand.

So do Tikkas.

Their barrels on 100 model are heat swaged into recvr so not removable but thats what sets them in affordable price range

No they’re not.




The Sauer is a good rifle on its own- you do not need to use hyperbole.

 

[Tesoro]

So, they're subjectively a step up. Given this thread is about hunting with 223 rem and Mostly the 77gr tmk Sauers choice of 1:10 twist removes them from contention.

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So a 77gr bullet is only one that will kill deer?! They limp away with a 60gr. If they arent heat fitted like the mod 101 then no big deal. hard to keep up. Heat swaged made no diff on accuracy.

 

[amassi]

So a 77gr bullet is only one that will kill deer?! They limp away with a 60gr. Dont believe the gun rags the barrels are heat fitted.stock is soft. Metal is more polished before coating blah blah

most·ly
/ˈmōs(t)lē/
as regards the greater part or number.


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[Tesoro]

I stand corrected if the barrels are threaded instead of swaged. either way makes not diff how they shoot

 

[kkp005]

Well I finally got to draw some blood with the 77gr TMK’s. Shooting an 18” tikka. Man this little gun is fun to shoot suppressed and it wrecked this doe. Shot her from about 80 yards and she might have ran 50 before pilling up. Lungs were complete mush and the bullet exited.

 

[Juan_ID]

Black Hills 5.56 77 Gr TMK Ammunition

Black Hills TMK 5.56 77 Gr. Sierra Ammo 77 Gr. TMK Velocity: 2750 FPS 50ct box The products offered for sale on this page can expose you to chemicals, including Lead, which are known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm. For...

www.creedmoorsports.com

 

[RedRidge]

Adding another data point. Held on the shoulder from about 30 yards. Broke shoulder and got top of the heart. Deer ran 20 yards.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

What an awesome thread! Next time I catch grief for my 16" Grendel 123gr eld-m combo this thread is going to be forwarded haha. I'm apparently 'compensating'.

One thing I haven't seen any discussion on is bullet weight retention or recovered bullet pics. I understand it may not be that important if 77gr essentially disappears over it's ~14-18" of travel but just curious what's typically left after x amount of penetration at x amount of impact velocities?

 

[Formidilosus]

just curious what's typically left after x amount of penetration at x amount of impact velocities?

The base of the bullet and about 30’ish grains generally. It’s about the same regardless of 2700fps impact or 1,800. But, all the weight retention and diameter does is obscure what actually matters- acceptable penetration depth and wound channel size and shape.

From the last elk I posted above, 18” barrel, 287 yards.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

The base of the bullet and about 30’ish grains generally. It’s about the same regardless of 2700fps impact or 1,800. But, all the weight retention and diameter does is obscure what actually matters- acceptable penetration depth and wound channel size and shape.

From the last elk I posted above, 18” barrel, 287 yards.

View attachment 359938

View attachment 359939

Great info, without breaking out the calculator what was impact velocity and did you weigh that little sucker? or am I reading right ~30-ish grains remaining? How many inches approx. did it go?

Also, what's the exit ratio on say deer size game? Half and half, 25%, 75%?

 

[Formidilosus]

Great info, without breaking out the calculator what was impact velocity and did you weigh that little sucker? or am I reading right ~30-ish grains remaining?

Around 1,900fps impact. And yes, around 30 grains.

How many inches approx. did it go?

17 +/- inches, through scapula and ribs.

Also, what's the exit ratio on say deer size game? Half and half, 25%, 75%?

Pure broadside, ribs only- most exit. Catch either scapula and it’ll be sitting under the offside skin.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

Around 1,900fps impact. And yes, around 30 grains.




17 +/- inches, through scapula and ribs.





Pure broadside, ribs only- most exit. Catch either scapula and it’ll be sitting under the offside skin.

thanks awesome info/resource, and this thread the same, I'd like to take this a bunch further after the next couple days and into the new year, we're hitting an evolutionary curve in understanding terminal ballistics on a broader scale and this a fantastic thread to show so much of what the majority still may be missing out on, happy holidays beeatches, back soon

 

[woods89]

@Formidilosus , and anybody else who has experience, is there a clear winner between the 69 TMK and the 73 ELD-M for those of us unfortunates who have 1-9 twist barrels? 75 Gold dots are unobtainable, apparently.

I've given serious thought to a rebarrel, or even just a new fast twist rifle, but I recently bought a pair of Leica Geovids (no regrets!) so I may have to wait on that for awhile. I won't be killing anything larger than deer with this setup.

 

[mt100gr.]

@Formidilosus , and anybody else who has experience, is there a clear winner between the 69 TMK and the 73 ELD-M for those of us unfortunates who have 1-9 twist barrels? 75 Gold dots are unobtainable, apparently.

I've given serious thought to a rebarrel, or even just a new fast twist rifle, but I recently bought a pair of Leica Geovids (no regrets!) so I may have to wait on that for awhile. I won't be killing anything larger than deer with this setup.

Not sure if your rifle likes them, but the 73gr Berger OTM is pretty ferocious on deer, too. Not a great number of samples for me, but in discussing it with Form prior to using it, he had some experience with it too. It's somewhere back in the pages of this thread, I believe.

 

[woods89]

Not sure if your rifle likes them, but the 73gr Berger OTM is pretty ferocious on deer, too. Not a great number of samples for me, but in discussing it with Form prior to using it, he had some experience with it too. It's somewhere back in the pages of this thread, I believe.

That's actually what I used on a doe this year. She died within 50 yds but I didn't get an exit.

I had hoped for a little better penetration, but I may be falling into the trap of not being satisfied with dead animals.

My rifle does shoot them very well.

 

[woods89]

I added one tonight.

I had intended to use the 77 TMK's in my 1-9 twist CZ. Initially I thought they would work, but as I shot some volume I realized this rifle/bullet combo just wasn't delivering acceptable precision. I have some 69 gr TMK that I need to load up and try. This rifle does shoot 73 gr Berger OTMs very well though, so they got the nod.

Shot was about 100 yds, impact velocity 2600ish. Whitetail doe was broadside. At the shot she ran about 50 yds, stood there for a few seconds, and tipped over.

The bullet entered just behind the shoulder, tore a nice hole through both lungs, and did not exit.

I intended to take a few more photos, but all I wound up with was one of the lungs after field dressing.View attachment 353177
Edited to add- It's an absolute blast to hunt with something with virtually no recoil and mild noise. Also, if I legally could have filled another tag I easily could have, as the 6 other deer in the field all stood around trying to figure out what happened. I will use it again, although I do think I will try to use 69 TMK/73 ELD-M/75 Gold Dot in the future due to the twist rate. I would have ideally liked to have more penetration, but it is hard to argue with the results.

Here's some more details.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus , and anybody else who has experience, is there a clear winner between the 69 TMK and the 73 ELD-M for those of us unfortunates who have 1-9 twist barrels? 75 Gold dots are unobtainable, apparently.

They both kill, but you won’t get many exits. Between the two the 69gr TMK’s penetrate a bit deeper. Don’t overlook the 62gr Federal Fusion/Speer Gold Dot- though I’d probably still choose the 69gr TMK.

 

[woods89]

They both kill, but you won’t get many exits. Between the two the 69gr TMK’s penetrate a bit deeper. Don’t overlook the 62gr Federal Fusion/Speer Gold Dot- though I’d probably still choose the 69gr TMK.

Much appreciated. That's kind of what I was wondering. I'll keep an eye out for the lighter Gold dots as well.

That 1-9 twist is a real hindrance.......