223 AI velocity potential

[Jesse Jaymes]

Fire Formed some brass couple weekends ago

 

[Sadler]

Finally got my barrel so I have a couple data points.

Barrels an 18” carbon six. Just fire forming here are the numbers. These were from a magneto

77TMKs with 25 grains of N540- 2700 fps
88ELDMs w/ 24 grains of N540- 2600 fps

Slower than I thought it would be. The same
77tmk load in my 16” tikka was 100 FPS faster so
Maybe I just got a slow barrel.

Today my Garmin chrono showed up so I reloaded a few rounds at 25, 25.5, and 26 grains with the 88s

25 grains averaged 2700 FPS
25.5 averaged 2750 FPS
26 averaged 2800 FPS (very spicy)

Comparing my notes from last year shooting the 88s with 25 grains of N540 I’ve gained 100 fps. Granted the barrel is 2” longer but overall I’m happy with this speed, especially out of a sammi chamber.

Tonight I’m going to load some more up using 8208 and see where that puts me. I’m on a bunch of lists to be notified for H4895 so hopefully I can use some of that and get some data to post on here.

Next move is to extend the throat a bit so I can seat the bullets out and get a COAL of 2.6”.

Question about extending the throat to push out the bullet and to add more powder; if I’m already at pressure, is this a waste of time? Using this specific powder.

 

[JJ3]

I built one on a Bighorn Origin and the feeding issues about did me in. I went with a 18" Crown ridge barrel works xcaliber barrel in a krg bravo. Both CRBW and Bighorn worked with me on different chamber mouth angles, bolt heads and finally a extractor modifications. This In addition to AICS mag modifications to get it running.

Its OK now. Its very precise, will lay down 5rd groups in the .2-.4s consistently with the right loads and picked up 200 fps on the high side. Most everyone loves shooting it when fireforming. BUT the highest velocity's after forming are not in the best accuracy nodes so.......IMO the juice is not worth the squeeze when I can run a cut rifled barrel a little longer and be within 100fps.

OH also had a 24" R700 that fed much better but only picked up about 100fps total inch for inch load for load so I let it go.

 

[JJ3]

Some more pics

 

[sveltri]

I built one on a Bighorn Origin and the feeding issues about did me in. I went with a 18" Crown ridge barrel works xcaliber barrel in a krg bravo. Both CRBW and Bighorn worked with me on different chamber mouth angles, bolt heads and finally a extractor modifications. This In addition to AICS mag modifications to get it running.

Its OK now. Its very precise, will lay down 5rd groups in the .2-.4s consistently with the right loads and picked up 200 fps on the high side. Most everyone loves shooting it when fireforming. BUT the highest velocity's after forming are not in the best accuracy nodes so.......IMO the juice is not worth the squeeze when I can run a cut rifled barrel a little longer and be within 100fps.

OH also had a 24" R700 that fed much better but only picked up about 100fps total inch for inch load for load so I let it go.

At least you don’t have to trim as often.

 

[wind gypsy]

Next move is to extend the throat a bit so I can seat the bullets out and get a COAL of 2.6”.

Question about extending the throat to push out the bullet and to add more powder; if I’m already at pressure, is this a waste of time? Using this specific powder.

I don't understand what you're asking in regards if you're already at pressure, is it a waste of time? Longer throat=less pressure so you can burn more powder to get the same pressure and in turn get more velocity.

 

[Sadler]

I don't understand what you're asking in regards if you're already at pressure, is it a waste of time? Longer throat=less pressure so you can burn more powder to get the same pressure and in turn get more velocity.

That answers my question. I’m at pressure right now with n540. I just wanted to know if pressure is still going to be the same regardless if I seat the bullet out farther with the same amount of powder. Unknown just finished extending the throat and +P’n it for me so I’ll have more data later this week once I get back from work. I also asked Blaine all of this and he told me that as well.

 

[Juan_ID]

That answers my question. I’m at pressure right now with n540. I just wanted to know if pressure is still going to be the same regardless if I seat the bullet out farther with the same amount of powder. Unknown just finished extending the throat and +P’n it for me so I’ll have more data later this week once I get back from work. I also asked Blaine all of this and he told me that as well.

So you will now have a 223 ai +P?

 

[Sadler]

So you will now have a 223 ai +P?

Yeah. Picking up the barrel tomorrow. I’ll test out 77s and 88s with N540, H4895, and 8208. N540 has been the fastest but I just got some 4895 to test out and from what I’ve heard and read, it should be faster than N540

 

[Jake Leibke]

Yeah. Picking up the barrel tomorrow. I’ll test out 77s and 88s with N540, H4895, and 8208. N540 has been the fastest but I just got some 4895 to test out and from what I’ve heard and read, it should be faster than N540

I’ll be interested to see your results.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wind gypsy]

Yeah. Picking up the barrel tomorrow. I’ll test out 77s and 88s with N540, H4895, and 8208. N540 has been the fastest but I just got some 4895 to test out and from what I’ve heard and read, it should be faster than N540

With the way powder prices/availability has been going I've been reading more about the viht stuff. From what I read that N540 is supposed to get some very impressive velocities (but hard on throats, not very temp stable). Let us know how things turn out.

 

[sveltri]

With the way powder prices/availability has been going I've been reading more about the viht stuff. From what I read that N540 is supposed to get some very impressive velocities (but hard on throats, not very temp stable). Let us know how things turn out.

I got very close to 3K fps with the 77 TMK seated at book length and book max charge of N540. The groups sucked so I didn't continue to investigate it.

 

[Sadler]

Haven’t tested accuracy yet but I got 3000fps with the 77s and 2900fps with 88s with N540 and 205AR primers. Once I get back from this work trip I’ll mess with it more.

 

[Tell]

Yeah. Picking up the barrel tomorrow. I’ll test out 77s and 88s with N540, H4895, and 8208. N540 has been the fastest but I just got some 4895 to test out and from what I’ve heard and read, it should be faster than N540

Looking forward to the update. I’m on the fence as to whether the velocity gain is worth it.

 

[Stave]

@Sadler how is your load development going?

 

[BigG]

I have run multiple Ackleys and the main thing I love about them is the seriously reduced need for trimming. i have a shortened 223AI cartridge I built running 40gr Vmax with 13gr of N110 at over 3050 fps, can run faster but shoots awsome right there. Point is it has about 10-12 firings on most cases with no need to trim yet and no loss of cases from primer pockets etc.
I also have done 2 223AI barrels off of factory Ruger Predators, set barrel back and recut chamber. They are outstanding shooters and cases last forever with no trimming. 75gr bullets running at 2950fps with H4895.
As mentioned earlier I believe, to do properly a barrel has to be set back then cut. Chamber is shorter than factory so parent cartridge is a little tighter. If the parent cartridge and barrel shot good I have never had an Ackley shoot worse but have always benefitted from reduced trimming and some speed gain of 50-200fps depending on cartridge.
As I am getting older I love to do gun work and wildcat but always look at my kids being able to still shoot my rifles even if they dont want to or dont have time to reload. That is the beauty of Ackleys. I have done 7mm-08AI, 243AI, 22-250AI, 223AI and my shortened 223AI and love all of them. All but my shortened round which I built to be a much more efficient Hornet substitute shoot factory ammo superbly.
You will love your 223 Ackley. My go to powders are H4895 and H322. I dont doubt Tac would work well, maybe W748 and VV powders.

 

[Sadler]

@Sadler how is your load development going?

Havent been able to do much but I did switch to 8208 because the accuracy was pretty bad with the N540 with 3” groups at 100, which is a shame because I was getting those 77s up to 3050fps with it. As of right now I’m at 2975 with 8208 with about a one inch five shot group. That’s plenty good for me but I want to verify that with a 30 round group to see how much it opens up. I should have more info for you after the weekend.

 

[Stave]

Thanks for the update! I've been debating between getting a Tikka .223 or .22-250 or perhaps something in between (22BR). It is helpful to know the full potential of .223AI

 

[Ramem7mm]

I had a 223 AI built last year with a new Rem action and a 26" Heavy Palma barrel put in an AG stock with a Nightforce SHV. Initial fire forming loads were pretty accurate through various powders and bullets using CCI 450 primers and Lapua brass. Not needing to trim brass has been pretty cool and I have picked up about 100 fps on 69 TMK that are @ 3,120 FPS using max load of Varget. Lighter 51 grain Hammer bullets with Benchmark is going about 3,550 FPS.

 

[30338]

My 223AI shoots 75 amax at 3000 fps into tiny little groups with a 22" barrel. That's a Pacnor 8 twist in mtn rifle contour. Never tried 88s in it.