223 ai load data

[TradLife406]

I was looking at Sierras Ackley data and compared it to standard Vhit data. For n540 they both were the same. The same charge weights for standard and AI.

Both were like 25 grains

Already have some standards loaded to try out at 25 grains.

What's the general rule for increasing powder for ackley?

77 tmks, obviously.

 

[jonboatjockey]

Usually a grain or two over 223 data, but I always start with the max 223 charge and then work up to pressure

 

[KyleR1985]

I form with top end .223 loads. Then work up with formed brass after that.

In case you’re wondering; the 77’s will shoot even with a big jump. I throated my 16” 223ai to have the 77’s touch at 2.5”. This is shots 6-10 after throating, .125” off the lands.

 

[SouthPaw]

I form with top end .223 loads. Then work up with formed brass after that.

In case you’re wondering; the 77’s will shoot even with a big jump. I throated my 16” 223ai to have the 77’s touch at 2.5”. This is shots 6-10 after throating, .125” off the lands.

View attachment 1040762

Do you jam the bullets for forming 223ai?

 

[Caseknife]

Not necessary if it was chambered correctly. My 223AI closes hard on a standard case. Usually 2 grains more powder in the AI.

 

[KyleR1985]

Do you jam the bullets for forming 223ai?

Not necessary if it was chambered correctly. My 223AI closes hard on a standard case. Usually 2 grains more powder in the AI.

What he said. However - I made the mistake of buying once fired and sized LC brass and trying to run it through the gun. It was so over done on the sizing it was chambering with no crush fit. Quite a few misfires. So with those I’m jamming.

Running once fired but unsized .223, neck sized with the Lee collet die has been the best way so far. Then neck size again after second firing, then full length size in 223ai going forward.

 

[TradLife406]

Thanks guys!

 

[Tdonat]

I’ve been using cheap Winchester 223 bulk ammo to form brass, but I’ve been loading mine at 25.5g of staball match with an 80g eldm with good results, only .5g over hodgdons max load for a standard 223, but it’s very accurate.

 

[KyleR1985]

 

[KyleR1985]

16.5” 223ai

3x fired 223ai LC brass, 88tmk, 27gr lever, cci450, 2.5” oal, .100” off lands

2815 fps average

100 yards

 

[LazyP]

I’ve used IMR 8208 XBR, Varget, and H4895 with 75 eldm. Started all of them at max standard .223 and worked to pressure. H4895 has been the winner for me.

 

[Gstew1930]

Hopefully my barrel gets in soon as I can add to this

 

[KyleR1985]

I had some issues fireforming once fired/sized LC brass from sages reloading. Lots of misfires.

They are way short.

223ai is supposed to have crush fit on 223 brass so I don’t have to jam bullets but it isn’t working.


So I went back to jamming bullets into lands. Across 30 shots no misfires brass perfect 77’s shot smal at max 223 loads

 

[Thegman]

I had some issues fireforming once fired/sized LC brass from sages reloading. Lots of misfires.

They are way short.

223ai is supposed to have crush fit on 223 brass so I don’t have to jam bullets but it isn’t working.


So I went back to jamming bullets into lands. Across 30 shots no misfires brass perfect 77’s shot smal at max 223 loads

At this point, I have zero experience with 223 AI, but this got me to wondering...

If possible with the powder you're using (LVR, e.g.), do you think you'd see any issues in your rifle running over-max 223 loads in your fireforming loads? Perhaps matching or close enough to the velocity of your AI loads to be same-same for hunting loads (??).

I know there are a lot of variables here. I'm guessing that they are mostly related to the pressure required to expand the brass relative to peak pressure of the load. If brass has expanded to AI chamber dimensions well before peak pressure, I'd think there wouldn't be much of an issue.

 

[KyleR1985]

At this point, I have zero experience with 223 AI, but this got me to wondering...

If possible with the powder you're using (LVR, e.g.), do you think you'd see any issues in your rifle running over-max 223 loads in your fireforming loads? Perhaps matching or close enough to the velocity of your AI loads to be same-same for hunting loads (??).

I know there are a lot of variables here. I'm guessing that they are mostly related to the pressure required to expand the brass relative to peak pressure of the load. If brass has expanded to AI chamber dimensions well before peak pressure, I'd think there wouldn't be much of an issue.

I don’t think I could fit enough lever to match the formed ai load speeds. And if I did it would probably cause problems.

But, I can form at or above max 223 load speeds. That’s good enough for me. Now that I know the barrel is worth shooting, I’m going to load 100 cases of each flavor (lapua and LC) with max 223 loads of lever, jammed into the lands, and go shoot. 77’s at 2800+ are fun enough for 200 rounds.

 

[seand]

I was looking at Sierras Ackley data and compared it to standard Vhit data. For n540 they both were the same. The same charge weights for standard and AI.

Both were like 25 grains

Already have some standards loaded to try out at 25 grains.

What's the general rule for increasing powder for ackley?

77 tmks, obviously.

Assuming an 8% case capacity increase you should see approx 2% velocity increase running at same pressure - not that much. Most of the velocity increase folks see is due to running the ackley at higher pressures. The saami 223 pressure limit is pretty anemic.

 

[KyleR1985]

I’m averaging 10% increase in capacity with formed brass.

I’m extending the cartridge overall length beyond 2.26”.

I’m using a temp sensitive powder know for high speeds.

I’m not incredibly concerned about brass life with .15c each pieces of brass.


Details that may not be obvious. But are relevant.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

16.5” 223ai

3x fired 223ai LC brass, 88tmk, 27gr lever, cci450, 2.5” oal, .100” off lands

2815 fps average

100 yards

View attachment 1052330

I PM'd you as well about your process, but this is exactly what I'm looking for. 2800 fps from a 16" bbl. What is the freebore on that barrel, around .100? Also who spun it up? I really like using PVA.

Also, is the preference to neck or full length size a 223 AI?

 

[KyleR1985]

I PM'd you as well about your process, but this is exactly what I'm looking for. 2800 fps from a 16" bbl. What is the freebore on that barrel, around .100? Also who spun it up? I really like using PVA.

Also, is the preference to neck or full length size a 223 AI?

Shaw 223ai barrel chambered .050 deep. @longrangelead fit it and took a few ounces off. It’s a cheap barrel I took a chance on to prove out an idea with the gun before committing a lot of dollars. Got lucky it shoots great!

I throated it. I don’t know the freebore. If someone has a known freebore and can measure OAL that an 88tmk touches, we can calculate. I throated it to where an 88tmk touches at 2.6” - I added about .100” of freebore if I remember correctly.

My process, condensed version:

Shoot once fired (in a 223) and neck sized brass with max 223 load, or once fired/sized (223) brass at max 223 load with bullet jammed in lands. I use the Lee collet die for neck sizing. Shoot this ammo in the 223ai.

Take once fired (223ai) and neck size with Lee collet die. Shoot 223ai load I intend to shoot knowing my velocity will be a little inconsistent but generally fine as this second firing will finish forming any brass that hasn’t formed yet.

Neck size with Lee collet die and load know 223ai load for 3rd firing. This should be good formed brass at this point and load consistent.

After third firing use full length .223ai Lee sizing die.

This is where I’m at. I have a handful of brass that just went through their 4th firing. My intention is to get a hundred pieces to here, and then anneal half. Then I’ll run both lots another 3-4 firings. If I don’t lose any more of the ones I didn’t anneal, I’ll take the win going forward and not do it. .15 cents brass lasting 6-8 firings can be thrown away in good conscience.

 

[Thegman]

Shaw 223ai barrel chambered .050 deep. @longrangelead fit it and took a few ounces off. It’s a cheap barrel I took a chance on to prove out an idea with the gun before committing a lot of dollars. Got lucky it shoots great!

I throated it. I don’t know the freebore. If someone has a known freebore and can measure OAL that an 88tmk touches, we can calculate. I throated it to where an 88tmk touches at 2.6” - I added about .100” of freebore if I remember correctly.

My process, condensed version:

Shoot once fired (in a 223) and neck sized brass with max 223 load, or once fired/sized (223) brass at max 223 load with bullet jammed in lands. I use the Lee collet die for neck sizing. Shoot this ammo in the 223ai.

Take once fired (223ai) and neck size with Lee collet die. Shoot 223ai load I intend to shoot knowing my velocity will be a little inconsistent but generally fine as this second firing will finish forming any brass that hasn’t formed yet.

Neck size with Lee collet die and load know 223ai load for 3rd firing. This should be good formed brass at this point and load consistent.

After third firing use full length .223ai Lee sizing die.

This is where I’m at. I have a handful of brass that just went through their 4th firing. My intention is to get a hundred pieces to here, and then anneal half. Then I’ll run both lots another 3-4 firings. If I don’t lose any more of the ones I didn’t anneal, I’ll take the win going forward and not do it. .15 cents brass lasting 6-8 firings can be thrown away in good conscience.

Do you find you need to full-length size after the third firing? Just wondering how long one can get by with neck sizing only with less stretch in the AI case. 2 or 3 firings was about all I could neck size with 223 being chambered in an UL-UL. Gave up on neck sizing in general in that case.