2-10x vs 3-15x Hunting Scope

[redneckbmxer24]

There is no comparison to reliability between an NXS and every other option you’ve listed, especially when seen in large numbers.

Based on Leupold VX3 HD and VX5’s consistent loss of zero across multiple samples of each, I’d shoot a 1960’s Weaver K4 before them or and Swarovski save the x5.

You seem to have so many issues with scopes that nobody else does. I personally know of at least two dozen VX5HD’s in use, some of which are used hard, and not a single report of an issue yet alone ability to hold zero which is the most important requirement of a rifle scope.

Look at these two product pages at midway and euro optic, they’re the two with the most number of reviews:

Leupold VX-5HD 3-15x44mm CDS-ZL2 FireDot Duplex Scope Showroom Demo 172368

Leupold VX-5HD 3-15x44mm CDS-ZL2 FireDot Duplex Scope Showroom Demo 172368 For Sale!

www.eurooptic.com

Leupold VX-5HD Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 3-15x 44mm CDS-ZL2 Side Focus

The VX-5HD is taking optical performance to a whole new level. Leupold gave it a High-Definition optical system for sharp clarity, and the Twilight Max...

www.midwayusa.com

The Midway page has 34 reviews and Euro Optic 18. Some complaints that the turrets could feel better but not a single person saying “my scope doesn’t hold zero” on either page or any of the other VX5HD product pages at either vendor. If this was such an issue more people would be noticing it. And there’s WAAAAAAAAAAY more Leupolds in the hands of users than there are Nightforces.

Just like the Vortex LHT you say doesn’t hold zero that nobody else including myself seems to have a problem with. I’d be looking at my mounts and mounting techniques and the rifle itself if the same issue is repeating itself.

 

[Formidilosus]

You seem to have so many issues with scopes that nobody else does. I personally know of at least two dozen VX5HD’s in use, some of which are used hard, and not a single report of an issue yet alone ability to hold zero which is the most important requirement of a rifle scope.

How many rounds do you have on your most used VX5? Can you please show your first zero target and your last zero check target with absolutely no adjustments made?

As for no one else having those issues, nah. I’ve had half a dozen people in the last year, most from this board join for a range day and all of them swore their rifle was zeroed when they showed up, and all of them made adjustments when checked. Very likely your version of “zeroed”, isn’t mine.


Here’s the last Leupold Mark 5 zero confirm targets. Note: the 30 shot confirmation zero target initially was the exact size of the inside of the black square- the black lines are 20-30% larger than any shot should land from the rifle/ammo.




















Every individual group is 5 shots. Would you say that it holds zero or that it shifts given the information provided?

Look at these two product pages at midway and euro optic, they’re the two with the most number of reviews:

Leupold VX-5HD 3-15x44mm CDS-ZL2 FireDot Duplex Scope Showroom Demo 172368

Leupold VX-5HD 3-15x44mm CDS-ZL2 FireDot Duplex Scope Showroom Demo 172368 For Sale!

www.eurooptic.com

Leupold VX-5HD Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 3-15x 44mm CDS-ZL2 Side Focus

The VX-5HD is taking optical performance to a whole new level. Leupold gave it a High-Definition optical system for sharp clarity, and the Twilight Max...

www.midwayusa.com

The Midway page has 34 reviews and Euro Optic 18. Some complaints that the turrets could feel better but not a single person saying “my scope doesn’t hold zero” on either page or any of the other VX5HD product pages at either vendor. If this was such an issue more people would be noticing it. And there’s WAAAAAAAAAAY more Leupolds in the hands of users than there are Nightforces.

Your “evidence” for them working correctly is a product review on the product page?

Just like the Vortex LHT you say doesn’t hold zero that nobody else including myself seems to have a problem with. I’d be looking at my mounts and mounting techniques and the rifle itself if the same issue is repeating itself.

I didn’t say it doesn’t work- one of the owners of this site, and three other members all shot, mounted and used it. All saw the same failures. PM Ryan, show up to a range. You can run the full eval on your rifle and your LHT, or you can mount it on the bonded rifle. If it holds zero I’ll pay for your trip and buy you a new LHT. If it fails you come back and say so.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

How many rounds do you have on your most used VX5? Can you please show your first zero target and your last zero check target with absolutely no adjustments made?

As for no one else having those issues, nah. I’ve had half a dozen people in the last year, most from this board join for a range day and all of them swore their rifle was zeroed when they showed up, and all of them made adjustments when checked. Very likely your version of “zeroed”, isn’t mine.


Here’s the last Leupold Mark 5 zero confirm targets. Note: the 30 shot confirmation zero target initially was the exact size of the inside of the black square- the black lines are 20-30% larger than any shot should land from the rifle/ammo.
View attachment 470180


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Every individual group is 5 shots. Would you say that it holds zero or that it shifts given the information provided?






Your “evidence” for them working correctly is a product review on the product page?







I didn’t say it doesn’t work- one of the owners of this site, and three other members all shot, mounted and used it. All saw the same failures. PM Ryan, show up to a range. You can run the full eval on your rifle and your LHT, or you can mount it on the bonded rifle. If it holds zero I’ll pay for your trip and buy you a new LHT. If it fails you come back and say so.

Uhhh, those are your targets and aiming points? That's basically a step up from a pie plate zero, I'm not really surprised that your POA is changing when the target is a black box scribbled with sharpie on cardboard.

I don't currently own a VH5HD but my buddy I sold it to does still have it and he shoots it regularly and has only ever rezerod when he's changed ammo. He takes it to quantico regularly and dials it and it always returns and is always zero when he confirms. He was out here this past weekend and we did have to rezero it because I mounted a TBAC SR brake to it changing the barrel harmonics and hung a TBAC Dominus SR-K off of the end of it and it dropped POI 1MOA down and .5MOA L.

Actual end users satisfied with a product is indeed evidence. If people had to re zero every time they go out to shoot even to biggest fudd out there would take notice of that.

I'm on the road traveling currently in a fifth wheel so I'd gladly take you up on your offer after winter as long as its not an empty offer and its me shooting my rifle with my optic and my ammo.

FWIW this is just a few pics I came to on my phone of what I consider zero, two of the pics are flys I started shooting on my target backer when I got bored of shooting groups doing load development over the chrono.

 

[Rich M]

350 yd max?

2-10 is plenty.

 

[t_carlson]

Actual end users satisfied with a product is indeed evidence. If people had to re zero every time they go out to shoot even to biggest fudd out there would take notice of that.

I'm not so sure of that. It has been pretty well-known for years, starting when they switched over from the friction adjustments, that you have to do some playing around with Leupolds to get them zeroed. To be fair to Leupold, a lot of other brands are like that too.

Most everyone thought that was just the way scopes worked, including me. Then I bought a couple of scopes that actually tracked. I was surprised at how fast I could get them zeroed. Now, I can tell pretty quickly when a scope is acting up, but it is not obvious. Tracking and zero retention go hand-in-hand.

I still have Leupolds on some rifles. Most are fixed power, and all are 1" scopes with the exception of one. They are scopes that have proven themselves to hold zero, at least well enough for the rifle's intended purpose. A slight zero shift is not a problem on big game out at 400 yards.

The only one I dial is the 30mm, and I try to avoid it in the field if at all possible. I'm much more confident in my Nightforce and SWFA scopes for dialing. I don't have any brand loyalty. I just want stuff that works. If Leupold and Vortex can do that, I'll put more of them on my dialing rifles. Right now, its iffy.

 

[Formidilosus]

Uhhh, those are your targets and aiming points? That's basically a step up from a pie plate zero, I'm not really surprised that your POA is changing when the target is a black box scribbled with sharpie on cardboard.

Please explain what you think is visually different about iming in the center of a drawn square versus the center of a shoot-n-see target?

I don't currently own a VH5HD

So you don’t own one but are convinced it works correctly?

Actual end users satisfied with a product is indeed evidence. If people had to re zero every time they go out to shoot even to biggest fudd out there would take notice of that.

No they don’t. People see what they want to see. I see shooters from all over the country, including shooters and hunters that most on this board would recognize; and the vast majority think that “close enough” is a zero. Close enough being to the tune of “about two inches high, and sort of centered”.

I'm on the road traveling currently in a fifth wheel so I'd gladly take you up on your offer after winter as long as its not an empty offer and its me shooting my rifle with my optic and my ammo.

You can shoot your rifle and ammo, the one that was in the pic of the rifle on the bed of the truck.

FWIW this is just a few pics I came to on my phone of what I consider zero, two of the pics are flys I started shooting on my target backer when I got bored of shooting groups doing load development over the chrono.

Are they the same rifle/scope/ammo with no adjustments made at all?

 

[AkMtnRunner]

If it were just the sight picture while taking the shot on the game animal, 10x would be more than plenty for me. However, there's some range work that I like being able to see POA more precisely, and it's easier to mil out moose antlers with a larger picture.

 

[HighlandsHunter]

Uhhh, those are your targets and aiming points? That's basically a step up from a pie plate zero, I'm not really surprised that your POA is changing when the target is a black box scribbled with sharpie on cardboard.

I don't currently own a VH5HD but my buddy I sold it to does still have it and he shoots it regularly and has only ever rezerod when he's changed ammo. He takes it to quantico regularly and dials it and it always returns and is always zero when he confirms. He was out here this past weekend and we did have to rezero it because I mounted a TBAC SR brake to it changing the barrel harmonics and hung a TBAC Dominus SR-K off of the end of it and it dropped POI 1MOA down and .5MOA L.

Actual end users satisfied with a product is indeed evidence. If people had to re zero every time they go out to shoot even to biggest fudd out there would take notice of that.

I'm on the road traveling currently in a fifth wheel so I'd gladly take you up on your offer after winter as long as its not an empty offer and its me shooting my rifle with my optic and my ammo.

FWIW this is just a few pics I came to on my phone of what I consider zero, two of the pics are flys I started shooting on my target backer when I got bored of shooting groups doing load development over the chrono.

my VX5HD was flawless up to around 500 rounds then started wandering zero. I talked to a friend at Leupold and I believe there is a standard acceptable number of rounds for this design before it fails, roughly 1000 rounds off the top of my head. More than most hunters shoot. I don't think the scope ever took a big knock, it may have failed earlier if this was the case.

I used to think it was normal to check zero before a significant hunt. Was standard practice for me. Then I realized with some reliable scopes I no longer needed to check zero.

My latest experience in this was a mint leupold 6x36 on a 22lr. Lovely scope, it fell over in my closet last week and zero shifted a few clicks. I hoped it would be more reliable than that. I've had Kahles 6x42 fail, S&B 6x42 fail, Weaver 6x38 fail. Only one still going is a Meopta 6x42 on a AR15, pretty happy with it.

I appreciate Formi's tests because the more we hold the manufacturers to a higher standard the more chance we'll get reliable scopes you don't need to check zero before a hunt.

 

[JGRaider]

Anybody done testing on the Athlon Helos 2-12x?

 

[Dobermann]

Actual end users satisfied with a product is indeed evidence. If people had to re zero every time they go out to shoot even to biggest fudd out there would take notice of that.

Hmmm ... in my experience, some 'Fudds' believe that a scope needs to be re-zeroed each year and/or hunting season ...

 

[General RE LEE]

I appreciate Form’s advice on these forums but my experience with my Leupold VX5HDs has been great. I am an eastern US stand hunter that has maybe dropped my rifle 2x in my entire hunting career. I dial at my range all the time and they track.

No, they aren’t built like a Nightforce. They are excellent hunting scopes.

 

[Margoot]

I recently put a PA GLx 2.5-10x on a 18" 5.56 setup. I have zero problems banging on steel at 600 yards, but I think if I were to do it all over again I might opt for the extra magnification. If you're trying to keep the weight down then the 2-10x is fine, but if you don't care about weight then go with the 3-15.

 

[COGuy99]

The 3-15x VX5HD is only 0.8 Oz heavier than the 2-10x VX5HD, so really negligible. I am considering the NXS 2.5-10x though, it’s 20.5 Oz

 

[Trackselk]

When people (on rokslide) refer to RTZ (or not), are they usually talking about dialing or a change of magnification, or both?

 

[t_carlson]

When people (on rokslide) refer to RTZ (or not), are they usually talking about dialing or a change of magnification, or both?

Dialing, and that’s not just here but a universal term.

 

[Trackselk]

Dialing, and that’s not just here but a universal term.

Thank you. So, the leupolds are probably not losing zero when just changing magnification? I'm also looking for a new 500 yard hunting scope, and have always had good luck with loopys, but I don't want to find out that I should have gone with a nightforce by wounding something. Sounds like if not dialing, should still be good with a loopy. I'm excited about the b&c reticle giving me the confidence to go out another 100 yards, (if conditions are perfect)

 

[Keener22]

Thank you. So, the leupolds are probably not losing zero when just changing magnification? I'm also looking for a new 500 yard hunting scope, and have always had good luck with loopys, but I don't want to find out that I should have gone with a nightforce by wounding something. Sounds like if not dialing, should still be good with a loopy. I'm excited about the b&c reticle giving me the confidence to go out another 100 yards, (if conditions are perfect)

Changing magnification isn’t the same mechanism in the optic as dialing turrets. Whether they un zero themselves or not, changing magnification won’t move the zero, unless you bump the turret while doing so.

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

Thank you. So, the leupolds are probably not losing zero when just changing magnification? I'm also looking for a new 500 yard hunting scope, and have always had good luck with loopys, but I don't want to find out that I should have gone with a nightforce by wounding something. Sounds like if not dialing, should still be good with a loopy. I'm excited about the b&c reticle giving me the confidence to go out another 100 yards, (if conditions are perfect)

I understand what you were asking about. Low quality scopes sometimes change point of aim when magnification is adjusted. I have never heard of Leupold having that issue, however, many users here on Rokslide report losing zero due to bumpy car rides, drops, and shooting 500+ rounds. You might consider perusing previous threads that cover these complaints about Leupold.

If you are looking for a set it and forget it scope that is durable yet lightweight, you might look at the Trijicon Accupoint. I don't have one yet but I have researched them thoroughly and they get great reviews. You can find them on Europtic at great prices. Just something to consider since it is priced well below NF and checks the same boxes that Leupold does.

Good luck!

 

[Trackselk]

Many thanks for the trijicon lead and other info! I'll check them out.

 

[BlackTail]

changing magnification won’t move the zero, unless you bump the turret while doing so.

This is not true. Alex Wheeler has been testing zero shift with magnification change for awhile. You can read about it here.

A scope shift you should be aware of.

This popped into my head today and I thought I should let you guys know. About 7 years ago we started having a problem with a popular scope in long range BR. So we started testing scopes. The process was to mount 2 scopes on a solid one piece mount, one scope was frozen. Locked up so it cant...

www.longrangeonly.com