1911’s in general, 9mm versions specifically

[fwafwow]

The new Commander-length, bull barrel is the SOF; should be in the US soon: https://ustore.bularmory.com/products/sof-2026 It has a light rail and optics system. If you don't like either, they have a standard Commander model.

I'm really impressed by the quality of mine so far ... far more than the Tisas.

Wow. There are lots of Bul options. I made the (additional) mistake of looking beyond the SOF (even though listed at $1950 (although out of stock). Ultralight. Ultralight 2026. EDC. My head is spinning at all of the "x" vs "y" comparison searches in my future.

I pay little attention to them also - other than the couple who aren't in it for the views, and are happy to criticise, such as Ben and Joel.

But I find things can be learnt from some of the others who've done some long-form videos - just have to ignore the fluff and gushies, and listen out for failures, issues, etc. I find that if I laser in on the stuff that matters, there's sometimes surprisingly more than would first seem.

Sorry, who are Ben and Joel? Any other links you can recommend? (We have an unusual winter storm coming, so I am anticipating lots of down time.)

Correct

Curse you!

I'll see you and raise you:

A big part of the reason I bought my black 1911 (after this thread and others) was ... it was the last one available - and was discounted.

The reason I bought the matching stainless model was ... it was the last one available, and was being discounted.

I'd really like the Commander-length SOF ... all I need to do is wait for my local dealer's pre-order notice: they offer pre-orders ... wait for it ... at a discount, which helps them to meet their minimum order amounts.

So: buy late, get cheap. Buy early, get cheap. Justified.

This is bad.

I know you live in some foreign land, where Lord of the Rings happened in real life, but how did you find this LGS with a "pre-order notice"? Happenstance? Watching Bul's social medias? Getting on a secret list from Bul Armory? Maybe like special concert ticket access - you are a member of the fan club? Did you manifest that access? Askin' for a friend.

My C was delivered to my LGS yesterday just before closing time. I will get it Monday, unless we are snowed/iced in. (Note - I could get there, but they may be closed.)

 

[id_jon]

Sorry, who are Ben and Joel? Any other links you can recommend? (We have an unusual winter storm coming, so I am anticipating lots of down time.)

Ben Stoeger and Joel Park. If you have time to kill, their youtube channels will do it for you lol

 

[RockAndSage]

So what are people's thoughts on curved vs flat triggers, serrated vs smooth-faced?

Here's what I could share regarding that: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...ions-specifically.406722/page-37#post-4530913

 

[Dobermann]

Wow. There are lots of Bul options. I made the (additional) mistake of looking beyond the SOF (even though listed at $1950 (although out of stock). Ultralight. Ultralight 2026. EDC. My head is spinning at all of the "x" vs "y" comparison searches in my future.

For sure.

I think that US website helps break it down, though - first main choice is 1911 (single stack) vs SAS lines (double stack).

They then break them down by competition vs EDC/duty carry. For the double-stacks, the ones they tag as 'comp' guns are the really tricked-out race guns, so easy to ignore them. The EDC/duty list still includes some that would be fine for comps.

So, if you're wanting double stack, that takes you down to 30 options (https://ustore.bularmory.com/products/edc--duty).

Main differentiations from there are:
Length: 3.25, 4.35 or 5 in.
Comped or not ('Pro' model are the comped)
Frame: Stainless vs aluminium (usually badged as 'EDC' models)

If they had a comparison chart or sheet, that might make it easy, but if you know what you want from the above, it's not too hard to work it out (or just create your own comparison list).

I think part of the challenge is that page lists the updated 2026 versions, so there's about double what there should be. Might mean you can track some pre-2026 models down cheaper though.

Sorry, who are Ben and Joel? Any other links you can recommend? (We have an unusual winter storm coming, so I am anticipating lots of down time.)

As @id_jon said, Ben Stoeger and Joel Park. Ben is a multi-time IPSC champion. Both teach, put out no-fluff training tips videos (often in response to listener questions), and have some helpful handgun training manuals available on Amazon (some were reissued by Skyhorse Publishing last year, so just make sure you get the current version).

Lots of good drills in the books. Their technical videos don't traffic in pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo, just use everyday language and don't over-complicate things.

Joel also has a podcast, and they run the PTSG (Practical Shooting Training Group) along with Hwansik Kim. They'll sometimes team up with others for training, such as Matt Pranka and Nick Young.

how did you find this LGS with a "pre-order notice"? Happenstance? Watching Bul's social medias? Getting on a secret list from Bul Armory? Maybe like special concert ticket access - you are a member of the fan club? Did you manifest that access? Askin' for a friend.

Ha. Just on the email list from the distributor; they put a call out for deposits for new pistols they're importing, which helps them gauge the market interest, and get some up-front capital to assist with the orders. It's handy ... and dangerous!

My C was delivered to my LGS yesterday just before closing time. I will get it Monday, unless we are snowed/iced in. (Note - I could get there, but they may be closed.)

Yay. For the C re Bul - chances are good that the C will be better quality, so maybe shoot the heck out of it and then see if you still have an itch or not.

And please don't risk it re the snow and ice; I work in emergency management, and we're far happier when people just stay home and don't become statistics!

 

[fwafwow]

For sure.

I think that US website helps break it down, though - first main choice is 1911 (single stack) vs SAS lines (double stack).

They then break them down by competition vs EDC/duty carry. For the double-stacks, the ones they tag as 'comp' guns are the really tricked-out race guns, so easy to ignore them. The EDC/duty list still includes some that would be fine for comps.

So, if you're wanting double stack, that takes you down to 30 options (https://ustore.bularmory.com/products/edc--duty).

Main differentiations from there are:
Length: 3.25, 4.35 or 5 in.
Comped or not ('Pro' model are the comped)
Frame: Stainless vs aluminium (usually badged as 'EDC' models)

If they had a comparison chart or sheet, that might make it easy, but if you know what you want from the above, it's not too hard to work it out (or just create your own comparison list).

Thank you. The above is incredibly helpful. You have saved me time (again).

I think part of the challenge is that page lists the updated 2026 versions, so there's about double what there should be. Might mean you can track some pre-2026 models down cheaper though.

Already started down that path with a gun[dot]deals search, and the one pre-2026 I searched yielded prices at or above the BA website list. Given the above numbers, one would probably need to do a spreadsheet. That's now on my agenda for tomorrow.

As @id_jon said, Ben Stoeger and Joel Park. Ben is a multi-time IPSC champion. Both teach, put out no-fluff training tips videos (often in response to listener questions), and have some helpful handgun training manuals available on Amazon (some were reissued by Skyhorse Publishing last year, so just make sure you get the current version).

Thank you and @id_jon. I ran across a Ben interview today. Topic was something negative he had said about Staccato, then some some marketing talk. I tuned out to that one, but will look again tomorrow.

Lots of good drills in the books. Their technical videos don't traffic in pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo, just use everyday language and don't over-complicate things.

Joel also has a podcast, and they run the PTSG (Practical Shooting Training Group) along with Hwansik Kim. They'll sometimes team up with others for training, such as Matt Pranka and Nick Young.

Added to the list. More training is definitely in order.

Ha. Just on the email list from the distributor; they put a call out for deposits for new pistols they're importing, which helps them gauge the market interest, and get some up-front capital to assist with the orders. It's handy ... and dangerous!

Thanks. I may see if I can find a US large seller of Bul and inquire. (Just to see if that same approach might work here. For others. Really.)

Yay. For the C re Bul - chances are good that the C will be better quality, so maybe shoot the heck out of it and then see if you still have an itch or not.

Chances are also good that I'm not smart enough to know a difference. I'm thinking that if I waited this long for the C, I may be on a slower pace of buying the next one. (I can dream, right?)

And please don't risk it re the snow and ice; I work in emergency management, and we're far happier when people just stay home and don't become statistics!

Yeah. No chance we venture out. I try to mitigate my chances of effing myself up (after years of doing the opposite). And - this is Mrs. fwafwow -

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[fwafwow]

Spreadsheet in process. Pre-2026 models are rare as hens’ teeth, and at list where found. Looks like Blackstone may be the primary US dealer.

 

[Dobermann]

Thank you. The above is incredibly helpful. You have saved me time (again).

Already started down that path with a gun[dot]deals search, and the one pre-2026 I searched yielded prices at or above the BA website list. Given the above numbers, one would probably need to do a spreadsheet. That's now on my agenda for tomorrow.

Thank you and @id_jon. I ran across a Ben interview today. Topic was something negative he had said about Staccato, then some some marketing talk. I tuned out to that one, but will look again tomorrow.

Added to the list. More training is definitely in order.

Thanks. I may see if I can find a US large seller of Bul and inquire. (Just to see if that same approach might work here. For others. Really.)

Chances are also good that I'm not smart enough to know a difference. I'm thinking that if I waited this long for the C, I may be on a slower pace of buying the next one. (I can dream, right?)

Yeah. No chance we venture out. I try to mitigate my chances of effing myself up (after years of doing the opposite). And - this is Mrs. fwafwow -

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Some quick replies / notes / context:

Bul can apparently be hard to get in the US at times, which might explain higher prices from some opportunists. Others say that if just order from Bul US directly, it's straightforward. Not sure - one of the 1911 forums might offer more info.

Re Ben and Joel: Ben's videos are a mix of training tips, reviews, and industry drama. Know that he doesn't get paid by anyone and likes to stir things up - you just need to focus on the technical content. But unlike paid guntubers, he puts thousands of rounds through pistols before commenting on them in any detail.

Both Ben and Joel's channels cover some basics, while other things assume a certain level of knowledge. If you look through their back catalogues, though, you can find a few entire classes - their take is that not everyone can attend, and they're happy for people to see what they're saying first.

For me, the main thing is that they're both good shooters, have nothing to prove, and just put out solid advice that I've found has made a difference.

Their books give a lot of drills you can train at home and then verify on the range. Latest one is here: https://www.amazon.com/Baseline-Dryfire-Guide-Red-Mastery/dp/B0G48V1JJ2/ref=sr_1_1

Don't be put off by 'red dot' in the title - Ben has a video where he explains that this was just responding to the fact that almost everyone who attends their class uses one. Their teaching method is fairly similar for irons, as they're target-focussed.


PS Mrs fwafwow is ... younger than I expected!

 

[Dobermann]

Spreadsheet in process. Pre-2026 models are rare as hens’ teeth, and at list where found. Looks like Blackstone may be the primary US dealer.

 

[fwafwow]

I’m being good and watching reality tv with Mrs fwafwow and our daughter. But -

I’ve scoured online new sales and emailed Blackstone about pre-orders. For the rest of the members reading this thread.

Some quick replies / notes / context:

Bul can apparently be hard to get in the US at times, which might explain higher prices from some opportunists. Others say that if just order from Bul US directly, it's straightforward. Not sure - one of the 1911 forums might offer more info.

Good suggestion.

Re Ben and Joel: Ben's videos are a mix of training tips, reviews, and industry drama. Know that he doesn't get paid by anyone and likes to stir things up - you just need to focus on the technical content. But unlike paid guntubers, he puts thousands of rounds through pistols before commenting on them in any detail.

Both Ben and Joel's channels cover some basics, while other things assume a certain level of knowledge. If you look through their back catalogues, though, you can find a few entire classes - their take is that not everyone can attend, and they're happy for people to see what they're saying first.

For me, the main thing is that they're both good shooters, have nothing to prove, and just put out solid advice that I've found has made a difference.

Excellent.

Their books give a lot of drills you can train at home and then verify on the range. Latest one is here: https://www.amazon.com/Baseline-Dryfire-Guide-Red-Mastery/dp/B0G48V1JJ2/ref=sr_1_1

Don't be put off by 'red dot' in the title - Ben has a video where he explains that this was just responding to the fact that almost everyone who attends their class uses one. Their teaching method is fairly similar for irons, as they're target-focussed.

Book inbound

PS Mrs fwafwow is ... younger than I expected!

That’s her in spirit. She cray cray about weather.

 

[RockAndSage]

Topic was something negative he had said about Staccato,

Keep this in mind about the Staccatos vs everything else, when criticized by someone deep into the gaming/competition/2011-flex world: you can't compare a Dakkar Rally car to a Lamborghini.

The thing that sold me on the Staccato C was Form's mention of it going something like 5000+ mean-rounds between failure (MRBF) in formal testing. That's insane, for almost any gun, but especially for a 1911/2011. I've already got about 3-4k on mine, on one application of lube, no cleaning, no refresh of the lube, and not a single hiccup of any kind.

This thing would have been an absolute grail-gun for me even just 5-8 years ago. And in terms of field use, I'm just not sure there could be anything better if you're a serious and capable handgunner. It really is hard to overstate just how difficult it used to be to get a 1911 stone-cold reliable, especially over 1000s of rounds and hard-use field realities. And the more high-performance you wanted it, the less durability and MRBF reliability you got. But we're in a different world now, and it really is remarkable.

But you can't fairly compare a Staccato C to the higher-end race guns. It's apples and oranges. If a Glock was a Tacoma, the Staccato C is that high-performance, ultra-endurance Dakkar Rally car, that will scream right through the worst conditions you can throw at it, day and night, relentlessly.

The guns those gamer guys are comparing it to? Those are Lambo-guns. Flatter shooting, faster shooting, freakishly good triggers. But they're generally dog$h*t in the dirt. Track use only.

I couldn't be happier that I jumped on this C while I could.

 

[Dobermann]

Keep this in mind about the Staccatos vs everything else, when criticized by someone deep into the gaming/competition/2011-flex world: you can't compare a Dakkar Rally car to a Lamborghini.

The thing that sold me on the Staccato C was Form's mention of it going something like 5000+ mean-rounds between failure (MRBF) in formal testing. That's insane, for almost any gun, but especially for a 1911/2011. I've already got about 3-4k on mine, on one application of lube, no cleaning, no refresh of the lube, and not a single hiccup of any kind.

This thing would have been an absolute grail-gun for me even just 5-8 years ago. And in terms of field use, I'm just not sure there could be anything better if you're a serious and capable handgunner. It really is hard to overstate just how difficult it used to be to get a 1911 stone-cold reliable, especially over 1000s of rounds and hard-use field realities. And the more high-performance you wanted it, the less durability and MRBF reliability you got. But we're in a different world now, and it really is remarkable.

But you can't fairly compare a Staccato C to the higher-end race guns. It's apples and oranges. If a Glock was a Tacoma, the Staccato C is that high-performance, ultra-endurance Dakkar Rally car, that will scream right through the worst conditions you can throw at it, day and night, relentlessly.

The guns those gamer guys are comparing it to? Those are Lambo-guns. Flatter shooting, faster shooting, freakishly good triggers. But they're generally dog$h*t in the dirt. Track use only.

I couldn't be happier that I jumped on this C while I could.

I get all of the above as general points ... but seeing as you quoted @fwafwow referencing Ben ... yes, Ben has Atlases. But he's also sung the praises of the Kimber 2K11 ... and owns a lot of Staccatos.

He also said that most of his shooting this year will likely be with a Glock - probably because that's what most of the agencies he trains uses. (And know also that Hwansik recently shot and won a match with a Glock, just to show that it could be done.)

I think the main points he raises are a combination of Staccatos being fairly expensive for what they are, not being hugely better in performance than other offerings, and having had a few significant failures (in his high use).

But he's also recently used their stellar warranty, and gave them kudos for that.

So in this (case of specifically to Ben, not the wider matter of the pros and cons of Staccatos), I think the metaphor is less about the kind of car being compared, but what kind of driver is doing the comparison.

 

[RockAndSage]

I think the metaphor is less about the kind of car being compared, but what kind of driver is doing the comparison.

That's largely true - and his criticisms of it aren't coming from an EDC, duty, or field use perspective. They're coming from a gaming perspective.

I should have made a more explicit point about this in that last post, which was at the core of what I was trying to get at: people need to make their 1911/2011 decisions based on their intended use and the desired performance of that tool.

That's why the car analogy - you don't take a Lambo across the Sahel. A champion gamer's criticism of the Staccato needs to be understood as a comparison between gamer guns for gaming purposes - not high-performance duty purposes. For sure, he could run a Glock to a championship - but he's not running one of his Atlases in a side-by-side across desert sands or a two-track for days and needing instant, zero-warning stone-cold reliability with lives on the line. If he's criticizing a Staccato - in his context, you can probably take it as expert opinion and to listen closely. But outside that lane, for a different application, it's a different story.

If someone wants a tinker toy, or to dip their toes into the 1911 world without blowing a lot of cash, or they want a race gun, or they want a legit hard-use, high-performance 1911/2011 - it's important to know that these guns are just not interchangeable that way. And that any criticism of one needs to be understood in the context of that individual's reality.

 

[RockAndSage]

I think the main points he raises are a combination of Staccatos being fairly expensive for what they are, not being hugely better in performance than other offerings,

Let's put it this way: I would absolutely pay a $2000 premium over a 2k11, or even the same price as an Atlas, for a 2011 that I could toss in the mud and shoot without cleaning, or would shoot reliably at -30F, especially with the durability of it doing that after already having 20k or 30k rounds on it. Staccato prices aren't "fairly expensive" for duty high-performance. But they are fairly expensive compared to a 2k11 for gaming performance.

 

[Dobermann]

@RockAndSage: I think we're likely to agree on most of this in terms of application and the importance of reliability. In terms of Ben's comments, a few small clarifications:

First, while some criticism he has leveled might have been from a competition use perspective, I think it's also important to remember that he trains a lot of agencies, some of whom are using Staccatos, and he also makes comments with 'regular' shooters in mind.

Second, Ben's not competing much these days - just doing his own high-round count training and instructing others. So I think many of his comments of the last year have had something of a wider point of view.

Third, I think it's important to remember that Ben has had a couple of failures/breakages on Staccatos.

Part of his beef appears to also be with the attitude of some at the company, and their marketing ... he can drag that into his discussions.

But again, I'm with you on reliability ... would be interesting to see a head-to-head comparison of a Staccato, 2K11, and Bul SAS, if only to see what the differences would be and when the failure points would occur for each.

 

[RockAndSage]

would be interesting to see a head-to-head comparison of a Staccato, 2K11, and Bul SAS, if only to see what the differences would be and when the failure points would occur for each.

That would be an awesome comparison to see done. While I haven't shot one yet, given the results high-volume shooters are getting with the 2k11 seem to be fairly uniformly great (except for the optics plate), I wouldn't be surprised in the 2k11 did well. It definitely does great at the range. The Buls are interesting, in that they seem to be a bit of a sleeper - guys who experience them seem to love them, but they're not getting a lot of hype, it seems.

 

[Moccasin]

If the COA is going to be made widely available, here's hoping Dawson make a range of plates for it.

Amazing how many other platforms don't have plates for the Acro.

I called both Staccato and Dawson last week and neither reported any plans for a COA to C adapter.

 

[fwafwow]

That would be an awesome comparison to see done. While I haven't shot one yet, given the results high-volume shooters are getting with the 2k11 seem to be fairly uniformly great (except for the optics plate), I wouldn't be surprised in the 2k11 did well. It definitely does great at the range. The Buls are interesting, in that they seem to be a bit of a sleeper - guys who experience them seem to love them, but they're not getting a lot of hype, it seems.

I’d definitely watch or read this comparison. Maybe throw in the new Kimber DS Warrior?

 

[RockAndSage]

I’d definitely watch or read this comparison. Maybe throw in the new Kimber DS Warrior?

Definitely. Along with Kimber's "Next Gen" 1911s, with the external extractors. I personally have zero interest in a 1911/2011 with an internal extractor, but I would very much like to see how well high-quality ones do side-by-side against those with external extractors, especially from the same company like Kimber.

 

[lak2004]

https://palmettostatearmory.com/tisas-usa-1911-night-stalker-sf-9mm-5-10rd-pistol-platinum-gray.html

Possible to get into a 1911 for decent price or save up and spend more on say a MAC or BUL?

I'm in CO so we have dumbass mag limits of 15rds, so most of the DS pistols are tough for me to get.

 

[BjornF16]

Ok. There was probably 40 Springfield pistols alone with COA’s at SHOT. They may not be able to be in hand today, but they are coming.

The TRP will get a COA slide cut...I seriously doubt they will offer an AOS adapter for those of us with TRP AOS