166gr Hammer Hunter in 30-06, seemingly hot loads?

[philcox]

(note this is a cross post from the Hammer Forum too)

I am VERY new at this, and have a feeling that I have a LOT of gaps in my methodology and data, and hoping to learn something to get this (the rifle and the process) dialed in, as I am seemingly spending a lot of time and money that is wasted (e.g., not efficient). Here goes.

Here is my process for this load/gun thus far. It is my son's gun and he is shooting the Barnes 168gr TTSX lights out in it, problem is that he can't get it anywhere, so I offered to try to workup a load for him, and since I can get HH 166gr, that is what I decided to go with. This is a LONG post, and I am documenting what I have done, and maybe I can get some insight as to how I can improve, steps to insert, and some to take away...

Rifle Tikka 30-06 Barrel Length 22"
Twist 11-1 Powder H-4350, RL16
Bullet HH 166gr Primer CCI 200
Weight 168 Brass Mix of Barnes and Hornady fired +1X
CBTO: Hornady 2.635-2.640, Factory 2.588-2.590, Buddies 2.685-2.690
Neck: Hornady 2.035-2.040, Factory 2.038-2.040, Buddies 2.039-2.043

Testing Distance: All testing done at 200yds
Use Case: Hunting

A couple things I am worried about in my current setup:
1. Am I seeing pressure but not recognizing it?
2. Are the loads that I have going to cause me problems in 100+ degree weather? (South CA A-Zone can get that warm)

On to my process and results thus far:
* I have a caldwell chrono that seems to work sometime and not others, so not much has velocity

6/12/21 - 1st Load Dev - Find Pressure (primer flow and bolt hard to lift)

• COAL - 3.320
• RL16: 54.0 - 57.0 (.5gr increments) - Slight primer flattening at 57.0, but no real pressure signs
• H4350: 54.0-57.5 - No pressure signs

6/18/21 - 2nd Load Test (find pressure and check grouping)

• RL16: 56.5 - No pressure
• H4350: 58.0 - No Pressure
• RL16 56.0: 2825, 2804, 2825, 2845, 2853, <missed one> (I tried to mix brass here, 2ea Barnes, Hornady, and Remington). 1.609 MOA for the 6
• H4350 56.0: 2866, 2855, 2848, 2836, 2847, 2825 (I tried to mix brass here, 2ea Barnes, Hornady, and Remington) 1.873 MOA

6/21/21 3rd Load Test (find pressure and check grouping)

• RL16 57.0 - Barnes Brass 2863, 2861, 2884 1.138 MOA. Hornady Brass 2808, 2840, 2854 1.088 MOA. Did 3 Barnes Brass and 3 Hornady Brass.
• H4350 59.0 - Barnes Brass X, X, X 3.057 MOA . Hornady Brass 2892, 2888, 2872 0.717 MOA

7/??/21 4th Load Test (will let son shoot and let me know which he likes)
So at this point, I have the following load setup that I will now have my son shoot (I think I bring a lot of the variables into the accuracy equation)

• Decided on using the Hornady Brass, so I weighed every case and got the ones that were closest in weight. I weighed all the primed but unfilled cartridges to verify weight. I triple checked the charge before filing case and inserting projectile.
• I wanted to do my best to ensure the charge was consistent within the loads (I don't know how I can be more accurate, so suggestions on the requisite OCD for this is appreciated).
• RL16 57.0gr - Competed bullets all within 0.8gr (406.4 - 407.2)
• H4350 59.0gr - Competed bullets all within 1.2gr (408.4 - 409.6)
• Buddies RL19 - 3 Cartridges using RL19 and 168gr TTSX - Competed bullets all within 1.8gr (426.6-428.4)
• Factory Barnes 168 gr TTSX - 8 Cartridges - Competed bullets all within 1.0 (428.6-429.6)

My finals 2 loads at this point are 57.0gr RL16 or 59.0gr H4350. I have RL22, Varget, and Hornady Superformance powder that I have not yet tried, and won't unless I see the need. The Varget is for my 6.5CM

I over index on stuff a lot, so might be overthinking this (I have already burned through my first 50 HH166 and still not "decided"). My only 2 other references for the HH166gr were Steve Davis said they found 56.0gr RL16 best, and Mark Huseling said he ended up at 56.0 H4350. Hence my concern as to if the loads are a bit too hot, and may cause issues down the road.

Any insight into how I can improve my efficiency or process is appreciated.

 

[MrTim]

There is a lot of info there. But to clarify the question, why do you think that the loads will be too hot?
FWIW…My experience with 2 rifles with HHs and 1 with AHs is that is should take less than 20 bullets to find your load.

 

[philcox]

There is a lot of info there. But to clarify the question, why do you think that the loads will be too hot?
FWIW…My experience with 2 rifles with HHs and 1 with AHs is that is should take less than 20 bullets to find your load.

Couple reasons:

1. I am not sure I really know how to judge pressure, but bolt was not hard to lift, and primer looked a bit flat but not bad
2. Steve and Mark both ran into pressure before I did, and settled at 56.0. I am 1gr and 3gr above that (see #1)
3. I read on a few posts that temp can increase pressure and he could be hunting in 100+ temps
4. Agreed on the “find your load” and I am at about 50 HH’s still second guessing

 

[amassi]

H4350 is very temp stable- if your developing loads right now your good to go.
I'd stop testing two powders, just try one at a time and if it isnt acceptable try again with another.
My process for loading hammers
Load up a ladder to find pressure, for simplicity sake let's say that's 60 grains
Load up 5 rounds at each powder charge from 57.5-59.5 in .3gr increments
Shoot those at 200 yards for group size
Pick the best one and shoot it over a chronograph, if the velocity is acceptable to your hunt parameters your done.
The easy button for hammers is the nosler load data for same weight class bullets. I know thos shouldnt work since the hammers are considerably longer but in over 20 cartridges it works.
You being 1-3gr over steve is moot since your chamber is different also crimp may differ et el.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Runningwater]

My recollection is that Steve said start at 56, and then work up. FWIW I ended up at 57.1 of RE16 with 166HH in my Fieldcraft for 2838fps. Zero pressure, but that's not at all a hot load in an 06.

You're 1-11 twist is a bit slower than the minimum recommended for the 166. I wonder is that may be impacting your accuracy.

Good luck!

 

[philcox]

My recollection is that Steve said start at 56, and then work up. FWIW I ended up at 57.1 of RE16 with 166HH in my Fieldcraft for 2838fps. Zero pressure, but that's not at all a hot load in an 06.

You're 1-11 twist is a bit slower than the minimum recommended for the 166. I wonder is that may be impacting your accuracy.

Good luck!

yes, I just noticed today that the Tikka is a 1:11, which as you said is below the recommended. I may have to fall back to the 168gr TTSX as it is designed for 1:11 or faster ... I'll use my extra HH in my 300WM.

 

[452b264]

yes, I just noticed today that the Tikka is a 1:11, which as you said is below the recommended. I may have to fall back to the 168gr TTSX as it is designed for 1:11 or faster ... I'll use my extra HH in my 300WM.

You should have used the 160 gr. HH its for a 1/11 twist.

.308 Cal-160gr Hammer Hunter™ - Hammer Bullets

For you 30 cal Tikka shooters. Here is a pure copper bullet that will fully stabilize in your 1-11" twist Tikka. This 160gr Hammer Hunter™ will be a stellar big game hunting bullet for any big game animals from plains game to deer and elk on down.

hammerbullets.com

I have had zero issues getting any Hammer bullets to shoot really good.

 

[philcox]

You should have used the 160 gr. HH its for a 1/11 twist.

.308 Cal-160gr Hammer Hunter™ - Hammer Bullets

For you 30 cal Tikka shooters. Here is a pure copper bullet that will fully stabilize in your 1-11" twist Tikka. This 160gr Hammer Hunter™ will be a stellar big game hunting bullet for any big game animals from plains game to deer and elk on down.

hammerbullets.com

I have had zero issues getting any Hammer bullets to shoot really good.

Yep, bad research on my part. I’ll use my 166 in my 300WM. His gun likes the factory 168 TTSX, so got those and will work a load up for him with them.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

IMO with Hammers step down to 152 grain HH. Go for speed. Similar to Barnes with 4 extra projectiles. When I ran the numbers for Hammers the 152 grain HH was the sweet spot.

I'm currently working up a load, 30-06, 152 grain HH.

Lapua brass, Winchester LRM primers, 0.004 neck tension, H4895, seating 0.02 off lands.

With my setup I focus on ejector marks and bolt lift NOT primers.


BUT your velocities don't seem crazy so pressure unlikely. Your bolt lift is normal that is very reassuring IMO. NOT a fan of mixing brass so I'm glad you settled on one. I wouldn't use the 160 grain or heavier Hammers because you're right at the minimum regarding twist. 152 HH 1:12 twist or faster. That's your bullet!

I would prefer a little faster twist vs. right at the minimum recommendation.

Everything I've read about Hammers suggest they are very easy to work up. Most can dial a load within 20 shots. They seem to be very forgiving. I wouldn't overthink it too much. You absolutely have something to gain by transitioning to Hammers. Barnes require high velocity impact to fully open up. With Barnes, I keep the impact velocity > 2200 fps. Somewhat of a limiting factor with Barnes and the 30-06 and higher weight bullets like the 168 grain TTSX. Hammers will shed their petals down to 1800 fps so you don't have to worry about impact velocity in the same fashion as you do with Barnes. That really benefits the 30-06.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I have a ton of 168g ttsx bullets I’d trade you for the hammers you aren’t using.