1600 Rangefinder

[squeekieslayer]

Long-er range rangefinder questions

Hey guys i had a quick question.

My leupold 1000 TBRi has more or less let me down on dozens of occasions this year. I got it when shooting 500 yards was my absolute max. I have recently gotten into shooting long range and need something better.

My plan is to use the TBR as my archery and backup rangefinder, and use the new one for rifle hunting. I plan to use the rangefinder to get the range and angle and put it into my shooter app on long range shots (over 500) but use the internal calculator and best curve for quick shots out to 500 yards.

My question is this....

For $700 bucks I could get a Leica that will range up to 1600 yards and have a basic calculator that will work out to 875.
For $1600 bucks I could get a G7 that will range up to 1800 yards but have a more advanced calculator that will work out to 1400 yards.

Is the G7 worth the extra $1000 bucks?

Is there another option that I am missing?

Joe

 

[Sam Millard]

Hey guys i had a quick question.

My leupold 1000 TBRi has more or less let me down on dozens of occasions this year. I got it when shooting 500 yards was my absolute max. I have recently gotten into shooting long range and need something better.

My plan is to use the TBR as my archery and backup rangefinder, and use the new one for rifle hunting. I plan to use the rangefinder to get the range and angle and put it into my shooter app on long range shots (over 500) but use the internal calculator and best curve for quick shots out to 500 yards.

My question is this....

For $700 bucks I could get a Leica that will range up to 1600 yards and have a basic calculator that will work out to 875.
For $1600 bucks I could get a G7 that will range up to 1800 yards but have a more advanced calculator that will work out to 1400 yards.

Is the G7 worth the extra $1000 bucks?

Is there another option that I am missing?

Joe

I use and recommend the Leica. It has built in angle, temp, and baro info. You could use the ballistic solver in the unit, but I prefer a comprehensive program on an iPhone or iPod touch or similar device. IMO, no, it is not worth the extra $1000. My 1600 has ranged to 2000 on overcast days, easily ranges to 1600 in any condition I've tried it in, and is lightning-fast!

 

[Chad44]

I agree with Sam. I own the 1600 and have ranged it out past 2000 yards in real hunting situations. I also prefer to use an app on my iPhone for firing solutions. I find the G7 too bulky. The 1600 is really small and the glass is really good too. The thermometer is accurate if you keep it out of the sun. The barometer is dead nuts accurate.

 

[TRIPLE]

Leica all the way, my experiences mirror Sam's.

 

[Broz]

The G7 is a cool piece of equipment. But I sold mine and kept the Leica 1600 for a lighter RF and a backup to my PLRF10. The thing I could not warm up to when testing the G7 was the large beam divergence that on occasion would give me inaccurate readings. I say go with the CRF 1600 and your app and eliminate all the errors you can in your shooting solution.

When you put these 3 side by side on the same targets the truth is right in front of you.

Jeff

 

[RosinBag]

And I would go with yes on the G7. Primarily because it gives you your ballistic solution based on current environmental factors.

Sam's solution also works as he is inputting current conditions into his phone app.

I don't think the beam divergence is that big of a problem to me. At long range, the beams are all fairly big. If you get the technical specs off all, I think it will show that.

The G7 is also good for hunting with buddies who don't have a everything in their rangefinders. I can put up to 5 profiles in my G7 and give them the solution they need right away.

Comes down to money vs. features vs. preference.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I've had both and would also get the 1600-B. If your shooting across canyons into brush or clearcuts like we do in N.Idaho or hunting semi flat ground(antelope) a G7 can burn you. If I was hunting a little more open mountainous area(Colorado/Utah). I really don't think it would matter as much. I did like the speed of the G7 for whitetail hunting.

 

[Sam Millard]

And I would go with yes on the G7. Primarily because it gives you your ballistic solution based on current environmental factors.

Sam's solution also works as he is inputting current conditions into his phone app.

I don't think the beam divergence is that big of a problem to me. At long range, the beams are all fairly big. If you get the technical specs off all, I think it will show that.

The G7 is also good for hunting with buddies who don't have a everything in their rangefinders. I can put up to 5 profiles in my G7 and give them the solution they need right away.

Comes down to money vs. features vs. preference.

Beam divergence is a HUGE deal, especially as you increase the range to target. The Leica has a 0.5x2.5 MRAD beam (.5 vertical/ 2.5 horizontal), the G7 has an advertised 2.0x4.0 MRAD beam...that is a very big difference.

 

[RosinBag]

I get smaller divergence is better, but practically I don't know if it is at distance.

For example, and I am not a math wizard by any means.

1 mrad I think is roughly 3.44 MOA.

So Leicas beam at 1000 yards is roughly 17.2"x80.6" or 1.5'x7.5'.

The G7's beam at a 1000 yards is roughly 68.8"x137.6" or 5.5'x13.5'.

At a 1000 yards , that isn't that much as long as you have cross hairs on the animal. That could change if you were near a crest of a hill between you and the animal, but then you should be able to see the difference unless the hill was a 100 yards peso from the deer.

At distance, I usually have plenty of time to range and set up. I will range an animal a half dozen or more times while setting up to confirm the range and keep track of current range if he is moving.

I have yet to blame the rangefinder on any miss I may have had. For my needs and preferences the G7 is my choice.

 

[Justin Crossley]

I don't get this thinking at all.

The reason we use a rangefinder, is to get an accurate range to target as fast as possible. Clearly the G7 is going to have a higher potential for false readings.

 

[Broz]

I don't get this thinking at all.

The reason we use a rangefinder, is to get an accurate range to target as fast as possible. Clearly the G7 is going to have a higher potential for false readings.

Right on Justin. The single most important input to an accurate shooting solution in the distance. If your RF grabs a bush or something in the fore ground it will blow your shot and could drop you into legs instead of vitals. We all know that at long distances bush that looks to be right in front of the animal can easily be 50 yards in front although it look like the animal is right behind it. Beam divergence is very important and we have proved it over and over. The pic I posted above, where I was testing the G7, it failed several times that day in the foot hills as well as on antelope in the flats with sage brush. The reason I no longer own it. I need an accurate range above all.

Jeff

 

[Darren Best]

If money isn't an issue, get a Terrapin, otherwise go with the Leica.

 

[RosinBag]

That's why there is more than one option for people, preference. I have yet to get a range on my g7 when using it.

And false readings could happen. Say a deer or antelope or whatever big game animal you hunt is 3'x5', at a 1000 yards the g7 has a beam that is roughly 15" above and below that animal and 4' left and right if the animal is centered. I personally don't think that is all that big in the grand scheme of things.

I think the 1600 is a fine device too, I just prefer the features in the G7 and am ok with knowing the beam is bigger than the Leica. If I know this and take that into account I have no problem getting my range.

Just my personal opinion.

 

[squeekieslayer]

I dont think that the terrapin is commercially available any more. I have not been doing the "long range" thing a lot... but I feel like a "quick" shot up to around 500 yards, can be very accurately delivered with a drop chart on the stock or maybe even the balistics internal to some rangefinders (if you are lucky and the curve fits.) I have been using the shooter app and LOS rangefinder for all of my practice and hunting over 500 yards. It does not take along time, and i am going to have my kestrel out to get wind anyway... so plugging in a couple number on the app is quick and extremely accurate.

The Leica seems to be a better strict rangefinder than the G7 and costs half as much... like Bros mentioned, it is also very light and compact so it definately beats out the much bulkier G7.

thanks guys... who knows what new products will come out... maybe a g7 with a better laser.

Joe

 

[Broz]

For a better understanding of beam divergence think of it like this. Stand 3' from a wall and shine a flashlight on the wall. Back up and watch how the beam gets larger. Not to see the problem on flat ground lay that flashlight on a table top and see how long the beam is even if you raise it up a bit. An extra 3 or 4 feet of beam coverage can wreak havoc in the right scenario. When I tested my G7 I set it up to fail and it did. Hard things to range like a rock on a hillside just visible over a nearer hill. But that could have been the deer I wanted and the near hill was at 750 and the rock at 900. I had to go about 10 feet over that rock to get it to range that hill the rock was on. Then the antelope were at 650ish as per the Leica and Vectronix PLRF10. The G7 kept saying 600 ?? So I kept trying to no avail. They were on mostly flat ground like antelope would be and when I raised up over the goats back I got no reading as there was nothing but sky. I finally took the Vectronix and started searching for what the G7 was grabbing. Low and behold it was a sage brush bush right in line with the goat but 50 yards nearer. And yes I did try the near and far mode on the G7 and the results were the same. Lets look at what that would have done to the shot with my 300 win. 600 yards needs 9.5 moa up , 650 needs 10.8 so the error was 1.3 moa which would have made me shoot low by 8.5 or so inches. Could have been a miss under or could have got a leg.

I am not saying this is a common problem with the G7, but it can happen and I only wish to offer what beam divergence is about with LRF's. Does it happen a lot, probably not, but I do know at least a few guys that have sold their G7's from this problem occurring.

For what ever its worth,

Jeff

 

[LaHunter]

Thanks for the explanation. Very well stated. Beam divergence was one of the factors that led me to buy my Leica 1600.