16" suppressed elk gun

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

If that’s to me asking for the link, then please show me a screenshot of “long barrel 308 test” in Google showing a link to the 1990’s study by the US military that I asked about.

UR just posted a video of short vs long barrel .308 the other day. Great episode and I recommend ya'll with .308 check it out.

I'm getting my 22" Ruger American cut down to 16.25" and threaded so its ready when my can gets out of jail. I'm going to start with Form's easy button .308 load of 44-45 grains of Varget and 168 ELDM. Other bullets in the 165-175 range work as well. If no pressure sigs in my Ruger, I'm going to bump to 46 and check velocity/groups.

I was also going to spring for a Timney trigger, but after watching guys replace the Ruger trigger spring in 5 minutes with a Mcarbo aftermarket for $13, I'm going to try it first. Factory Ruger accutrigger sucks a$$ compared to my Tikka OEM.

 

[TxLite]

6.5 has by far the highest BCs out of all these rounds, and this helps maintain velocity and trajectory compared to the others.

Not disagreeing with that but Op only plans on shooting 400 yards at absolute max, and prefers to get as close as possible. Not sure BC is going to be a deal breaker on any of his options.

The heavier bullet of the 30 cals would offer more energy on target if that’s something you subscribe to. I know that can be a touchy subject vs velocity for expansion/disruption at impact.

 

[HNTR918]

Look into hand loading and powder choice when going with a short barrel.
Factory ammo in my 19'' 280ai with 168gr goes ~2620 fps MV.
Handloads in my 19'' 280ai with 168gr and IMR 7828 SSC ~2940 fps MV.
Consistent sub MOA groups, and no signs of pressure.

 

[packgoatguy]

UR just posted a video of short vs long barrel .308 the other day. Great episode and I recommend ya'll with .308 check it out.

I'm getting my 22" Ruger American cut down to 16.25" and threaded so its ready when my can gets out of jail. I'm going to start with Form's easy button .308 load of 44-45 grains of Varget and 168 ELDM. Other bullets in the 165-175 range work as well. If no pressure sigs in my Ruger, I'm going to bump to 46 and check velocity/groups.

I was also going to spring for a Timney trigger, but after watching guys replace the Ruger trigger spring in 5 minutes with a Mcarbo aftermarket for $13, I'm going to try it first. Factory Ruger accutrigger sucks a$$ compared to my Tikka OEM.

If you like the 168eldm, try the factory superformance ammo. In my 16 inch 308, I get just under 2700fps, in a 20 inch barrel, it was over 2800fps. By comparison, most other factory ammo in the 160-180s comes in between 2450fps and 2500fps. Handloads, I can end up around 2525-2550. Unfortunately, the superformance stuff doesn't group great in my rifle. But... who cares, it's my 300 yard and in uberlite, and my 17yr old son just hammered his 6 point bull at 100 from a hasty rest, 175gr Terminal ascent, 2480fps MV. Broke the front shoulder, and pulverized the lung, and the bull dropped in his tracks. Dead before he could get off another shot.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Not disagreeing with that but Op only plans on shooting 400 yards at absolute max, and prefers to get as close as possible. Not sure BC is going to be a deal breaker on any of his options.

The heavier bullet of the 30 cals would offer more energy on target if that’s something you subscribe to. I know that can be a touchy subject vs velocity for expansion/disruption at impact.

BC does matter, because it allows the 6.5 to punch above its weight out to 400 and beyond with the lowest recoil and flattest trajectory.

As the OP gets closer to his target, the perceived "advantages" of the heavier recoiling 7mm and .30s also diminishes. Inside 400 yards, there is no relevant advantage to anything larger than the 6.5 out of his list, and this goes for "energy" guys as well. If one subscribes to the 1500 ft. lbs. minimum dogma, all of those cartridges are over 1500 inside 400 yards with the right load.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

If you like the 168eldm, try the factory superformance ammo. In my 16 inch 308, I get just under 2700fps, in a 20 inch barrel, it was over 2800fps. By comparison, most other factory ammo in the 160-180s comes in between 2450fps and 2500fps. Handloads, I can end up around 2525-2550. Unfortunately, the superformance stuff doesn't group great in my rifle. But... who cares, it's my 300 yard and in uberlite, and my 17yr old son just hammered his 6 point bull at 100 from a hasty rest, 175gr Terminal ascent, 2480fps MV. Broke the front shoulder, and pulverized the lung, and the bull dropped in his tracks. Dead before he could get off another shot.

I'm reloading for my .308 and plan to try a few bullets, but hoping I get the same results with the ELDM that others have. I killed the bull in my profile at 80 with factory Federal 175 TA in my Ruger. It was a steep downward shot through both lungs (entered top of left and bisected right) and he dropped to his front knees, got back up, turned around, and walked 50 yards before crashing. Congrats to your boy on his elk!

 

[Bluegrassvw]

What study and can you link it?

I was wrong they came up with 18.5”

The guns were built by DARPA

This isn’t the article I read but the first one I found today:

DARPA XM-3 Sniper Rifle

For years Marine snipers have been using their coveted bolt-action M40s (A1/2/3/5) to take out enemies all over the world. These rifles are all built by hand at the Marine Corps Precision Weapons...

www.stevereichert.com

 

[Marbles]

I was wrong they came up with 18.5”

The guns were built by DARPA

This isn’t the article I read but the first one I found today:

DARPA XM-3 Sniper Rifle

For years Marine snipers have been using their coveted bolt-action M40s (A1/2/3/5) to take out enemies all over the world. These rifles are all built by hand at the Marine Corps Precision Weapons...

www.stevereichert.com

The complicated thing there is what is optimal. It really depends on use. Even velocity will depend on the ammo in question.

I like short rifles. Due to the NFA 16 is pretty much the point were I don't consider shorter. There is a point where every inch of barrel length lost results in significant velocity drop, but that point occurs somewhere shorter than 16 inches (probably for the majority of cartridges) and powder selection can alter it. Of course, there is also a point where longer barrels stop adding velocity and again powder selection will effect the length at which that occurs.

So, I think stating any length is optimal, stripped from context, is inherently incorrect.

Everything is a trade off. Short barrels handle better in confined spaces, but you loose some velocity and increase muzzle blast.

 

[Bluegrassvw]

The complicated thing there is what is optimal. It really depends on use. Even velocity will depend on the ammo in question.

I like short rifles. Due to the NFA 16 is pretty much the point were I don't consider shorter. There is a point where every inch of barrel length lost results in significant velocity drop, but that point occurs somewhere shorter than 16 inches (probably for the majority of cartridges) and powder selection can alter it. Of course, there is also a point where longer barrels stop adding velocity and again powder selection will effect the length at which that occurs.

So, I think stating any length is optimal, stripped from context, is inherently incorrect.

Everything is a trade off. Short barrels handle better in confined spaces, but you loose some velocity and increase muzzle blast.

I can agree with this

 

[elim]

I am working on a 16" 6.5 creed and a 16" 8.6 Blackout

 

[packgoatguy]

I just finished putting together a sub 5lb (bare rifle) 16 inch tikka 6.5creedmoor in a folding stock chassis. Handloading the 140eldm in lapua lrp brass I'm in the 2630fps range... we took multiple deer and elk this past season with the 140eldm between 2630 and 2660fps MV, but from 18 and 20 inch barrels. This rifle is more compact, with just as much punch.

 

[elim]

What powder are you using for the 16" barrel?

 

[OKHunter84]

I am working on a 16" 6.5 creed and a 16" 8.6 Blackout

The rotational energy on that 8.6 blackout is very intriguing. I'm just kinda skeptical on it being usable past 150-175 yards.

 

[packgoatguy]

What powder are you using for the 16" barrel?

RL16

 

[ShadowAviator]

If you reload and want something a bit different, I would take a look at the 375 Raptor. Currently a wildcat, but made from 308 brass. Dies are hard to come by, but do get made.

I feel like in the supersonic realm, it is similar to 358 WIN. However, if you ever wanted to shoot subsonic, then the Raptor wins easily.

Unlike the 8.6BLK, it uses normal twist rates, so you can shoot almost any bullet.

I don't have much data yet on ballistics. My barrel is new, so there is a chance my velocities may speed up in time (or so I have heard).

With an 18" barrel, I have shot 270gr speers at 2238fps. No pressure signs, but I haven't pushed any harder yet.

I have some 230gr Hotline VLR4s loaded, that I haven't tested yet. I am hoping for 2500+fps.

As far as subsonics, Maker has a 400gr monolithic made just for the Raptor and Discreet Ballistics is making a 265gr monolithic just for the Raptor, as well.