130 GR TSX Performance Field Report on Elk last week

[Esq]

New member here, been trolling and learning for awhile. Time to step into the fray and contribute what I know of value to the group - shouldn't take long.

Last week my 16 year old daughter shot a cow elk at 70-yards using 130gr Federal Factory TSX loads out of a 24" barrel Tikka 270WSM. The cow was small, about a 1.5 year old i'd guess. She hit it in the scapula. The elk took three steps and flopped over. She got excited and got off the sticks and started back towards me with a big smile, when the the animal got back up and started trotting away. She made another quick shot, but unfortunately through the guts with no effect as it disappeared over the hill. It was raining hard and I was really worried when we couldn't find blood and given that there were about 50-head the ground looked like a feed lot. Fortunately the animal collapsed after traveling about 150 yards. We found it by following the herd to where we last saw an animal. It expired jumping a farm fence. The front shoulder was badly busted, and both lungs punched, no exit from that shot. The gut shot produced two exits holes side by side about the size of a nickel each. Can't hardly believe how tough an elk is.

 

[Laelkhunter]

Yes, they are tough and the will to survive is strong. Outcome was a successful hunt, Congratulations to your Daughter.

 

[Wolf_trapper]

Do you think it was a possibility the first shot was back in the guts and 2nd was the killer? That's terrible bullet performance either way at that range

 

[35WhelenAI]

Esq, welcome and congrats to you and your daughter on your daughters elk! Good work! 130 gr TSX is fine elk medicine out of that rifle.

Wolf_trapper, what didn't that bullet do??? The front shoulder was badly busted and both lungs were punched, no matter if it was the first shot or the second shot as suggested.

I shoot a 35 Whelen AI, using a 250 grain Hornady spire point at 80 yards, punched the lungs on a cow elk in the timber with an exit. That full grown cow elk did the same thing. Flailing on her back with legs in the air, righted herself in 2' of snow and took off. Took a bit of tracking.

It's not horrible bullet performance, sometimes things just happen.

 

[Esq]

The hole in the scapula was about the size of a 50-cent piece. We never found the bullet and there wasn't an exit but we didn't do an exhaustive search and used the gutless method to take the meat so that we didn't have to get into the gut or chest cavity except to reach in and pull out the heart.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I've edited my post a bit, in any case that combination is fine elk medicine and stick with it when you go get her second elk next year!

I've taken elk with the original X, TSX and TTSX out of my 35 Whelen AI, along with the Hornady spire point mentioned in my post. Hornady spire point is the only one that befuddled me but again, stuff sometimes just happens. My son's both use the Barnes TTSX, out of an '06 and .270 Win. Great combos for elk. I've also used a 300 Win Mag with the older Barnes XBT on elk, muleys and white tails. Barnes are fine bullets.

 

[BIGEYES]

These anecdotes on bullet performance are valuable bits of information. ESQ congratulations to your daughter. Elk are tough animals.

 

[Esq]

I'm positive the first shot was through the front shoulder. The second shot with it on the move hit just back of the center of belly and the animal made no response, we didn't know she hit it again until we found the body.

 

[Laramie]

Congrats on the successful harvest. Glad it turned out well. I would suggest trying an accubond, interbond, or similar. Your trails will be shorter. Lead kills quicker from my 30+ years of hunting and guiding elk.

 

[35WhelenAI]

With a busted shoulder and punched lungs, how would lead have killed any quicker? Once the lungs are perforated they no longer function. Which means no more oxygenated blood to the brain. Same as if the lungs were turned to pulp.

I enjoy the discussion, please don't take any tone in that, it's an honest question and my assessments are based on 29 years in the elk woods and being inside of harvested animals killed with everything from Core Lokts to Power Points to Partitions to Monos. Every one of them got the job done and regardless of what bullet was used, some animals go further than others. The one constant I have seen is a lead bullet does much more entry side meat damage if anything hard is hit, not so with the monos. Again, from visual assessment on dead animals.

Maybe what we're talking about is the visual effect with respect to the reaction of the animal. I would tend to say lead bullets that open up quickly on a broadside hit have a more dramatic effect on the animal. But no more dead. Seeing as the worst performance I ever had on a broadside shot to the lungs was with a lead bullet (post #4), you can see why a successful harvests of many elk with mono X bullets has me looking at things the way I do.

 

[Laramie]

With a busted shoulder and punched lungs, how would lead have killed any quicker? Once the lungs are perforated they no longer function. Which means no more oxygenated blood to the brain. Same as if the lungs were turned to pulp.

But it's not. Have seen both multiple times. I'm not an expert in terminal performance but I have seen close to 100 elk kills. There is a very noticable difference.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Appreciate your thoughts. I think there is a more dramatic effect with some bullets versus others, but the animal is no less dead, it simply reacts differently to the hit. My experience with the mono X bullets in the field has been stellar, I'm not trying to pick nits one way or the other. I've watched many animals killed in the field besides my own. The worst performance I had was with a lead core bullet through the lungs on an elk as per post #4.

Sounds like we're all getting our elk, and that's the most important thing!

 

[Laramie]

Appreciate your thoughts. I think there is a more dramatic effect with some bullets versus others, but the animal is no less dead, it simply reacts differently to the hit. My experience with the mono X bullets in the field has been stellar, I'm not trying to pick nits one way or the other. I've watched many animals killed in the field besides my own. The worst performance I had was with a lead core bullet through the lungs on an elk as per post #4.

Sounds like we're all getting our elk, and that's the most important thing!

I'll agree. All will kill fine if you put the bullet where it should go. My only point is they tend to cover more distance with monos with all else being equal. Plenty of variables can skew results but side by side I would bet everything I own lead will put them down faster.

Consider why mono bullets were created... It wasn't because they killed better.

 

[35WhelenAI]

My understanding is Barnes created them back in the late '80s looking for something that would retain weight and penetrate better than the bullets at the time. This was before lead free reared its head so I don't know that I can say that was a reason.

Bonded bullets weren't around at that point to any large extent that I'm aware of.

I started using Barnes X in 1994, been using them for 27 years and they've done well. Honestly I'd say I've had six or seven of the elk I've taken with Barnes X, TSX, TTSX drop where they stood. Another six or seven have gone 10 to 30 yards. Every single deer whether muley or whitetail has dropped where they stood from any shot angle. Most of my experience is with the 35 Whelen AI, however I've taken elk, muley's and whitetail with a 300 Win Mag and the 180 XBT, and my boys use a 270 Winchester and 30-06 with TTSX's.

With respect to lead bullets my father hit a cow elk at 100 yards square on the shoulder with a 160 grain handload partition at 2800 FPS mv from his 280 Remington. She stumbled and made 125 yards before piling up. On side shoulder had nothing left for salvageable meat, on side lung was destroyed, off side lung had a nice hole through it and a bullet diameter exit out the offside.

Another hunting partner was sitting in camp eating lunch one day, lol. 3 elk appeared in a small clearing at the edge of the timber where our camp was set up. The cow was 40 yards outside our camp when he hit it. 30-06, 180 gr Core Lokt through the lungs and I helped him dress it, quarter it, and haul it out a 200 yards back to camp up out of a gulley. That elk made it more than a small distance after hit with a lead bullet through the lungs.

A friend shooting a 300 Winchester Magnum shot the calf elk that was with a cow I had just shot. The cow went down, the calf was hanging around and my buddy popped over the ridge coming to see what all the commotion was. 200 grain nosler Partition handload at 2850 FPS MV through the lungs of that calf, it ran in two or three concentric circle about 50 ft in diameter then fell. Straighten those out and it would have made it further than basically ending up where it had been shot. It's mom had dropped straight down with a 250 grain original X from my Whelen Improved diagonally behind the ribs into the offside lower neck meat where I recovered it.

Those examples as well as my Hornady spire point example don't show me there's any more benefit to a lead bullet than a Barnes or other similar mono.

 

[Laramie]

The studies are out there if you care to research. Lead transfers energy to is Target by 10-30% faster than copper. That results in more hydrostatic shock to the animal. I honestly don't care what people shoot, I just think it's a great marketing ploy by bullet manufacturers. Copper bullets, especially the newer versions, will absolutely kill. I have shot both and have seen hunters shoot both. I am extremely confident in my stance. I am friends with a Hornady engineer and know a Barnes employee. They both feel as strongly as I do. However, the industry is being forced one direction towards copper. It isn't because it works better.

 

[Zappaman]

I’ll go out on a limb here and say that with my 243, the TSX is preferred over lead for deer. I’ll also double down and say lead does better on bad shots in larger guns… but not the 243.

I like CLEAN MEAT and love my 243… so STX (or bonded as a second option) for me thanks.

 

[Esq]

I’ll go out on a limb here and say that with my 243, the TSX is preferred over lead for deer. I’ll also double down and say lead does better on bad shots in larger guns… but not the 243.

I like CLEAN MEAT and love my 243… so STX (or bonded as a second option) for me thanks.

With respect to the 243, my son shot his first buck this year. A decent 3x3 mules at 178 yards with a 243 accubond. We the deer was just slightly turned towards us and about 80ft elevation below us. The bullet entered just behind the front shoulder. The deer jumped / lunged forward and ran out of sight. After climbing down the rocks we inspected the area around where he was shot and found no blood. After searching and following tracks we found him dead about 125 yards from where he was standing when shot. Not a single drop of blood anywhere, just a tiny entry hole, no exit. The lungs, however, were completely liquefied. We found only a few chunks of that bullet.

 

[Laramie]

I’ll go out on a limb here and say that with my 243, the TSX is preferred over lead for deer. I’ll also double down and say lead does better on bad shots in larger guns… but not the 243.

I like CLEAN MEAT and love my 243… so STX (or bonded as a second option) for me thanks.

The clean meat argument is valid for those who are concerned with lead in their meat. Many of the .243 factory offerings are fast expanding bullets designed to kill thin skinned animals quickly. Our family likes the 95 grain SST for deer as they have been extremely effective. I'll admit I haven't tried the TSX in this caliber.

 

[35WhelenAI]

We pick our poison and animals are dying left and right by whichever one we are picking.

Clean meat has two meanings to me. One is absence of bullet material, however clean meat also can mean not losing a shoulder of an animal.

Like we've been talking, energy transfer is initially more immediate with a lead bullet and no doubt determines a lot in the animals reaction. Speed translates into more rapid transfer. I shoot light for caliber Barnes monos in my hunting guns. Possibly that's part of the success, that in my experience, is more positive vs lead bullets. The lead bullet examples I've shared in traditional weights may be just anomalies. Similarly, the lead bullet experiences being posted here as well must be anomalies.

This is all done in a respectful tone. For me, experience out does studies with respect to why I do what I do to harvest animals cleanly, and I am very confident in that stance as well.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Good discussion Laramie. Appreciate your thoughts and sharing your knowledge.