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  1. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    Best response so far. Occam’s Razor. The most simple explanation is usually the right one. Paraphrased. The real conversation needs to be about access and opportunity for hunters given the state of the sheep population and our collective lack of ability to do anything about. Who gets to cut...
  2. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    Yep. The science is in bad need of updating.
  3. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    Based on the best available science, harvest is not the problem. To have constructive conversations we first need to define the problem(s). If harvest isn't the problem, solutions limiting harvest make no sense. If one of the problems identified is overcrowding and too much competition for...
  4. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    Spot on.
  5. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    The info I found largely cited the following sources and/or reproduced their own survivor ship tables and graphs based data from these studies. Deevey (1947) Taber and Dasmann (1957) Buechner (1960) Caughley (1966) Bradley and Baker (1967) Murie (1944) The two tables above were Murie and...
  6. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    I don’t disagree by any means. I’ve been representing what the managers have said and continue to say, not necessarily my personal opinions. Problem is we don’t really have any hard data or science to point to re: the value of old rams. Do we? I think old rams do matter to the population in...
  7. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    Agreed 100% on access restrictions before loss of hunting opportunities.
  8. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    I should have said every young ram matters. I don’t quite follow your reasoning. There is a big difference between 4-6 year old rams dying and 8+ year old rams dying. There are problems with full curl management in my mind, mainly that it doesn’t prevent 6-7 year old rams from dying in fairly...
  9. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    I went in search of source data for that recollection and came up with the following: So based on these two studies (Deevey and Murie), mortality rates from ages 8-9 were 10% and 23% respectively, and then 16% and 43% from ages 9-10? Not sure where I pulled that 70% number from. I think...
  10. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    Once opportunity is lost, it is rarely regained. We've all seen that play out too many times to count.
  11. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    In years past when there were more rams on the mountain, sub-legal harvest was less of a concern. These days, every ram matters and 10-15 percent of the overall number of dead rams being sub-legal is not cool. Typically about 1/3 of the sub legals are taken by guided clients.
  12. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    Agreed in each case.
  13. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    This has been informally proposed and discussed a fair amount and I really like the idea. Creating an incentive to harvest older rams but still giving people the opportunity to take any legal ram under the current regs.
  14. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    I think I have it saved somewhere. And I may well be off on the exact number. I remember it being more than half, which surprised me because I feel like the average 8 y/o ram is in prime condition and should have 2+ years before decline. But that is all opinion and no science…
  15. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    That is ADFG position based on their “science.” Based on past mortality studies, rams 8 y/o and older stand a 70% chance of dying in the next winter. Rams 8 and older are a harvestable surplus that are not needed to ensure all available ewes get bred. Therefore their loss has no net negative...
  16. W

    Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

    Some here may be following the unit 19Csheep issues in AK. Short story is that sheep in 19c, the central/wester Alaska Range, are hurting bad, just like they are in most of the other parts of the state. Two years ago the state shut down all non-resident hunting in 19c and put together a...
  17. W

    AK Sheep, Population Observations

    Fair point. If they are killing those rams, less competition for the good ones, not that there's any left in their area...
  18. W

    AK Sheep, Population Observations

    I edited my post to more closely line up with my intended point. Not mocking the hunter, but pointing out what I think is ongoing bad customer service and borderline unethical behavior by the guide service in question.
  19. W

    AK Sheep, Population Observations

    I had mixed feelings about the post and probably should have held off. Thanks for the feedback. It is a publicly posted image so I don't feel permission is required. It was shared with the world. For clarification, I am not critical of the hunter and I hope they had a great hunt and are more...
  20. W

    AK Sheep, Population Observations

    Waaaay too many guides playing russian roulette with short, young rams the last few years. The sub-legal take % for guides is about the same as private hunters if I remember correctly, which is total BS and should come with more significant penalties in my mind. I wish we could go the Canadian...

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