"You can't outwork a crappy diet"....

[S.Clancy]

http://exomountaingear.com/20/

Just got done listening to this podcast.....Overall decent info for someone totally novice. However, I definitely found some things that I would disagree with.

1) "You can't outwork a crappy diet..." Lots of college athletes prove this wrong every year. I'm not saying eat whatever you want, but at a certain activity level, you simply will not be able to eat enough "clean" (whatever that means) food to continually increase or even maintain your performance. I've seen many people, including myself, shortchange gains by refusing to eat. Believe me, once you get over 3500 calories a day, and I've been at 7000+, it becomes difficult to eat whole foods exclusively.

2) The "sweet potato vs regular potato" or glycemic index debate.... Words of wisdom, regular potatoes (skin on) are really awesome. So is white rice, pasta, bread, and other "bad" carbs. The glycemic index is roundly ridiculed because it is based on the false premise that we eat only 1 food at a time. That doesn't usually happen. As he says in the podcast, bread has a higher glycemic index than a donut...because a donut has fat in it. We usually eat varied meals, so glycemic index doesn't really matter. A better way to think when choosing carb sources...how much fiber does it have? Also, those high GI foods are awesome after a workout, combined with a good protein source.

3) "Insulin spikes are bad"....Piggy backing off the above. Insulin does not push just fat into fat cells. Insulin is a nutrient partitioning agent, so cells with higher affinity for insulin to bind are the ones that insulin "pushes" nutrients into. This can be fat cells. However, after a workout, your muscle cells exhibit a higher affinity for insulin than fat cells, thus, insulin pushes nutrients into the muscle cells. Which is why research suggest high GI carbs and protein after workouts.

4) "Don't really count calories"....I think, and suggest, that everyone starting on this journey weigh their food, count macronutrients, and count calories for at least a couple weeks. Why? Because this process gives you the knowledge of portion size and allows you to approximate calories and macros which is important for long term success.

5) "Supplement industry"... I completely agree with his stance on supplements, with two notable exceptions. For most, they provide a placebo only, and his comments on pre-workouts is spot on, there are many that in higher dosages are dangerous. As far as supplements I take, or would recommend, I look at the literature. Creatine mono-hydrate has a wealth of studies that support it's efficacy. Whey protein (doesn't matter which variety i.e. hydro whey, blah blah blah) is also good because it's an easy way to increase total protein intake. Other than that, and coffee, there are not any that really standout, legal ones of course

Overall, I thought it was good. If any one else has listened to it, curious as to their take on it?

 

[AdamW]

I think a lot of this information depends on who you are targeting, the audience. If you're an athlete listening to the podcast, it may not apply to you in the same ways it does to Bob the Bowhunter who eats the "average" (read bad) American diet and exercises zero except for normal daily life.

Just a couple of your numbered points with my 2 cents. I'm no athlete and am nowhere near as mountain fit as many Roksliders.

1) Maybe a better way to phrase it is "It is easier to lose weight at the table than at the gym..." ? I've always liked that one better because when we get in to semantics, you are correct. Much like you mention in your calorie counting thoughts, the first time I got on a treadmill and put in some work and realized I had burned the calories in one Snicker bar I changed my thoughts to "Lose weight at the table, get fit/strong at the gym." I can just not eat a Snickers in 60 seconds or do some exercise for considerably longer to burn it off after eating one. Diet is where I think I and many average people have failed to see progress with weight loss and fitness. I have a female friend on Facebook who is in the high 200# range. She checks in to fitness classes almost every day on Facebook. That's great but her diet clearly isn't where it should be. She could exercise zero and lose more weight with a diet change.

4) The counting is good for the reason you mention. The issue is (and I have seen this with my own wife) counting sucks. Count all the weight watchers points or calories you want, but if it is junk calories, it is still junk. That's why sticking to a paleo-type diet as much as possible has been so successful for my wife and me. There's lots of good food to eat and you don't have to count anything. Now I understand if we were eating 8,000 calories of meat and nuts every day we'd have a problem.

 

[Poser]

I'll check it out.

On the crappy diet thing, the younger you are, the more resilient and adaptable your body is. Generally speaking, the younger you are, the more forgiving diet and recover are. However, most people will hit a wall with this at some point, often around 35 or so, but there can be wide variations here depending on numerous factors. While certainly there are extreme situations that call for super high caloric intake such as Michael Phelps (swimmer) eating 14,000 calories a day or JJ Watt (NFL) eating 10,000 a day. Fact of the matter is these guys are both professional athletes whose entire lives and livelihood is wrapped up in training and recovery and they are both eating those kind of calories for very different reasons. On the flipside, there are professional powerlifters who perform (train and get stronger) just fine on 4,500 calories a day and I've recently read about games level Xfitters eating in the 4,000-5,000 calorie range while doing 2-3 sessions per day. I doubt there are very few hobbyists athletes who have any real justification for eating more than 5,000 calories a day on any type of regular basis. Sure, in extreme circumstances such as prolonged races etc, you take what you can get, but I think long distance runners played the whole "eat what you want" thing out in the 80s with poor results later in life when diabetes and heart disease kicked in.


Glycemic Index: As an athlete, I think it is more important to pay attention to Glycemic Load rather than Index. GI compares equal quantities of the carb in quantities of 50 grams among different foods. It does not take into account the total amount of carb in a serving size. The best example is watermelon which has a GI of 72 while a candy bar has a GI of only 43. What is not taken into consideration there is that you would only have to eat 3 oz of a candy bar to get 50 grams of carbs where you would half to eat half a pound of watermelon. That example illustrates why GI can be misleading. If you look at the Glycemic Load, which is the GI multiplied by the carb content, you get a more accurate reading or, at least, you get more useful information about that food.

White Potato GI is 85, but the Glycemic load is 18.4

Sweet potato GI is 54 with a glycemic load of 13.1

The general idea is that the further away from your workout you consume a carb, the lower the Glycemic Load should be. Higher Glycemic Loaded foods are used more as direct and immediate sources of fuel for workouts or to immediately replace glycogen stored following a workout. I think that most people agree that athletes need foods with higher GIs than sedentary people. A pure paleo diet works great for someone who is moderately active and/or never trains at intensities greater than 70% max heart rate, but more active athletes, especially those hitting intensity, will usually perform better with some higher GI foods consumed at the appropriate time. High GI foods consumed at the inappropiate time, however, can be counter productive. For example, the long held idea of carb loading by eating pizza and pasta the night before a race. You're not benefiting from the direct fuel of those high GI foods 12-15 hours before a race. You could make the case for eating that 2-3 hours before a race, though. For recovery, I've been doing the Banana + chocolate milk combo lately which seems to work well.

One big problem we face for sustained climbs in backcountry hunting is maintaining glycogen stores. To maintain glycogen stores, we're going to need about 200 calories of carbs per hour, These carbs needs to be low or void of fiber and they need to be taken in 100 calories doses every 20-30 minutes. If you bypass that glycogen dose for very long, your body begins to convert muscle into protein which is why we often come back from these hunts 20 pounds lighter with a good bit of muscle loss. The most efficient way to maintain those glycogen stores is to take a gel shot every 30 minutes during sustained activity. The problem there is that may mean you need 6-12 or more gel shots a day, which is a lot to carry for a 10 day hunt. As I am growing tired of coming back from these trips with significant muscle loss, I am experimenting with carrying more and more quality food weight and cutting weight elsewhere where I can and just dealing with the extra food weight because of the increased performance benefits. As it stands right now, this means that on my next Elk hunt, I may very well be carrying 50-60 gels shots. What's the tradeoff? Carry an extra 3 pounds or lose 15 pounds of muscle? The answer starts to become obvious, I just don't know why I had to make so many mistakes to arrive at this conclusion.

 

[airlocksniffer]

Good stuff. Like AdamW, a few thoughts on some of the above:

1. As long as you burn more than you consume, you will lose weight. Period. I could eat 3K of Snickers bars every day or 3K of whole grains, venison, veggies, etc. I'll feel better with the latter but won't prevent me from losing weight.

5. Counting calories does suck for sure. If that works for you, great but I find it annoying. My biggest struggle is portion control as I tend to eat too fast. I have to really focus on a) taking less food to start and b) eating slower so my body has time to decide that I'm full. Lately, I eat until I'm not hungry, not until I'm full. Lots of water or La Croix with meals helps me feel fuller. I'm also not drinking beer right now so that is having a big impact on my holiday gains.

6. I think supplements and especially the industry is mostly snake oil. I quit taking multi-vitamins and rarely take anything else, other than the occasional salt pill or Endurolytes if it's really hot and I'm sweating a ton (not sure if those count as supplements). If you eat good veggies, fruits, lean meats and whole grains, you shouldn't need vitamins. Stuff like Mtn Ops and Wilderness Athlete sell the idea of performance in a can, which goes perfectly with people being lazy and looking for the least amount of effort. Sorry, but no magic pill/shake/etc is going to give you lasting performance like a good healthy diet, adequate sleep and lots of water will.

 

[Poser]

Supplements: I supplement with Whey 3-5 times a week, though I do try to get the vast majority of my protein from real food.
I cycle Creatine from Jan-June each year before switching more focus to conditioning.

That's all I use regularly, but I am going to experiment with supplementing BCAAs in the backcountry as an attempt to avoid muscle loss. I get plenty of BCAAs from the meat that I eat at home, but in the backcountry, my meat consumption drops a bit as I'm just not getting the quantity. I read about some double blind studies done on trekkers supplementing BCAAs that yielded positive results in terms of muscle maintenance vs muscle loss, so its worth a try, I think.

I don't think any of them are magic and one can easily get around using any of them. With the exception of whey protein which makes it much easier to hit your protein intake and creatine, which is relatively cheap and proven, most of them, if they do offer any advantage, are relatively expensive for a very tiny amount of performance advantage which is going to be virtually unnoticeable to most people. If you want to think about it this way, assuming most supplements do work in some way, it is worth it to spend $30 a month to get an extra rep here and there? Is it worth it to spend an extra $30 a month to be 1% better recovered when you wake up in the morning. Does that 1% make much of a difference for the average person? Maybe if you were competing at a high level and, especially, if you got the stuff for free, but spending $120 on supplements to achieve fractional improvement doesn't seem reasonable. You'd be far better off spending that $120 on higher quality foods or working a few less hours so you could get 9-10 hours of sleep a each night. No supplement is going to yield the same results as consistently sleeping 10 hours. You could probably even make a strong case for 10 hours of sleep + high quality diet consistently outperforms illegal growth hormones coupled with verage sleep and diet. I'm just speculating there, but I'd make a wager if pressed.

 

[S.Clancy]

Great points here. Age related effects on metabolism become less apparent when lean tissue is preserved, rather than lost do to inactivity. I think the biggest takeaway here is the need for experimentation in ones own nutrition/fitness. One guy may need 500g of carbs a day while another guy blows up on that.
As far as counting calories goes, yea it does suck, and is boring. But so is contributing to a savings and retirement account.....

 

[5MilesBack]

I've never given it a whole lot of thought. I eat what I want, when I want it, and as much as I want........always have, always will. I'm 50 and going strong. I might have good genetics. But I can't be the only one out there with decent genetics.

 

[BroodBuster]

I've been using the free "My Fitness Pal" app for calorie counting the last few months. Very user friendly as most meals and products are already in it. For instance I just had a tossed green salad and one packet of Hellmann's Light Italian Dressing for 40 calories.

Hellmann's Light Italian dressing:
25 calories
0.5 grams fat
440 mg of sodium
5 grams carbs
3 grams sugar
0% protein and vitamins. Pretty empty stuff but so are tossed green salads

Anyhoo very easy app. I'm in the lose weight stage and will worry about the gaining strength back stage come snowmelt. That's the plan anyways.

 

[BroodBuster]

I've never given it a whole lot of thought. I eat what I want, when I want it, and as much as I want........always have, always will. I'm 50 and going strong. I might have good genetics. But I can't be the only one out there with decent genetics.

No you're not alone. My hunting buddy who's 45, 6' and about 180#, can't get out of shape if he tried. Born Billy Goat! He spent his 40th birthday as a greenhorn on a fishing boat. He out worked and out performed every 20 something greenhorn in the fleet. He could have gotten a job on any boat in the fleet if he wanted too.

I used to be a pretty good athlete, baseball and skiing, and then I got money thrown at me to do a stressful cubicle job. 50#'s later and here I am. Not sure if there is any greater evil in this world than being gainfully employed . At least my buddy, who's business went under in the real estate bubble, got to spend a year in Alaska.

 

[5MilesBack]

He spent his 40th birthday as a greenhorn on a fishing boat. He out worked and out performed every 20 something greenhorn in the fleet. He could have gotten a job on any boat in the fleet if he wanted too.

Every time I watch Deadliest Catch I want to run up there and give it a go. But I absolutely detest the cold. If it weren't for the cold, I know I could do it. I could re-bait the pots without even climbing inside like I see most people having to do.

 

[Cant hit em]

I've never given it a whole lot of thought. I eat what I want, when I want it, and as much as I want........always have, always will. I'm 50 and going strong. I might have good genetics. But I can't be the only one out there with decent genetics.

I look at food and gain weight .

 

[Glory]

As far as outworking a crappy diet, I'm sure it could be done in short spurts. But, I see lots of ex athletes who got used to eating whatever they wanted but as life took over and the sports ended, they gained a pile of weight in a short amount of time. It's better in my opinion to eat as clean as time and budget allows, and make that a habit.

 

[TXCO]

I've been using the free "My Fitness Pal" app for calorie counting the last few months. Very user friendly as most meals and products are already in it. For instance I just had a tossed green salad and one packet of Hellmann's Light Italian Dressing for 40 calories.

Hellmann's Light Italian dressing:
25 calories
0.5 grams fat
440 mg of sodium
5 grams carbs
3 grams sugar
0% protein and vitamins. Pretty empty stuff but so are tossed green salads

Anyhoo very easy app. I'm in the lose weight stage and will worry about the gaining strength back stage come snowmelt. That's the plan anyways.

I use this app too. I agree its easy to use and am honestly surprised at how much is already in there. Plus it has a bar code scan option. Its definitely helped to teach me about how much Im actually consuming.