Wyoming Bonus Points

[Fatcamp]

I have always thought of bonus points as either 1. additional names in the hat (5 bonus points, 5 times in the hat), or 2. squaring (if you have 5 bonus points, then your name goes into the hat 25 times). I wonder what they have in mind when they say "weighted"? Is that just a general phrasing which implies that the more you have, the better (which seems obvious anyway), or is there some other formula commonly used different from either of the 2 systems I outlined above that is known as "weighted"?

South Dakota went to bonus points, it was the idea to help manage our elk herd. After awhile the people at the top bitched and got a weighted system put in place with certain percentages of tags going to point blocks; >2, 3-10, >10, or however it was, that's close.

Then a few years ago the people at the top, many of whom have had several South Dakota elk tags over the years bitched again and despite massive numbers of people pointing out how unfair it would be SDGFP made the decision to cube our D, E, and A points. Now for other stuff it really doesn't matter, but for elk it created this enormously unfair situation. We have so few tags, and so many double digit point holders that someone starting out now has almost no chance of catching up.

People are now burning their points on cow tags because the reality of never drawing a bull tag is setting in.

 

[Rich M]

If you only got points after an unsuccessful tag application and you lost points if you didn’t apply for two years you’d solve alot of problems with everyone just maxing out points in every state and holding them

I lost/gave up mule deer points after not buying for 2 years. So same thing there.

I think the reason they dont make folks apply is cause those who want to collect points will gum up the high point units with applications.

 

[wapitibob]

Pull the bandaid off and go random with an application cap like Idaho

Idaho will have points before WY gets rid of theirs.

 

[ckleeves]

If you only got points after an unsuccessful tag application and you lost points if you didn’t apply for two years you’d solve alot of problems with everyone just maxing out points in every state and holding them

I have heard a couple people make this suggestion and I just don’t get how it would help do anything. Colorado you want a point and don’t have close to max points? Just put in for the NW corner bull tags. People do it all the time. Luck into a hybrid tag with your 5 points accidentally? I don’t think that ever ruined anyone’s day.

Same with states like UT and Az. In UT Im not close to any deer tags I’m interested in there right now so I just throw in for the Henry’s. May as well be a point only code. The only thing it’s changing is making everybody else’s chances in the random a little bit worse!

You create a bigger problem by more or less forcing people into applying for top tier tags and further watering down draw odds.

It might slightly reduce point creep in WY simply because people may not front the money for an app as easily as they buy a point but at the expense of tanking random odds.

I can see it working in a front the money state IF it was in place from the beginning of the draw system. At this point in WY people have way to much already invested and aren’t going to let their 10 points go for a few hundred bucks and a few minutes to apply.

 

[Ferrulewax]

I lost/gave up mule deer points after not buying for 2 years. So same thing there.

I think the reason they dont make folks apply is cause those who want to collect points will gum up the high point units with applications.

That may be true, but at least you’d have some guys being forced to “cash out” instead of holding indefinitely. In a perfect world if this system was implemented from the start you may not have so many super high point areas to begin with as people would’ve been drawing there and actually using their points.

 

[Ferrulewax]

I have heard a couple people make this suggestion and I just don’t get how it would help do anything. Colorado you want a point and don’t have close to max points? Just put in for the NW corner bull tags. People do it all the time. Luck into a hybrid tag with your 5 points accidentally? I don’t think that ever ruined anyone’s day.

Same with states like UT and Az. In UT Im not close to any deer tags I’m interested in there right now so I just throw in for the Henry’s. May as well be a point only code. The only thing it’s changing is making everybody else’s chances in the random a little bit worse!

You create a bigger problem by more or less forcing people into applying for top tier tags and further watering down draw odds.

It might slightly reduce point creep in WY simply because people may not front the money for an app as easily as they buy a point but at the expense of tanking random odds.

I can see it working in a front the money state IF it was in place from the beginning of the draw system. At this point in WY people have way to much already invested and aren’t going to let their 10 points go for a few hundred bucks and a few minutes to apply.

Unfortunately I think you’re right. It really needs to be implemented at the start, I don’t know that it can be retroactively implemented and really help much.

 

[dirtytough]

That may be true, but at least you’d have some guys being forced to “cash out” instead of holding indefinitely. In a perfect world if this system was implemented from the start you may not have so many super high point areas to begin with as people would’ve been drawing there and actually using their points.

There are 10 tags. If 100 people apply in a preference point system for those tags it will creep to 10 points.

There are 10 tags. If 50 people apply and 50 build points it will creep to 5 points.

Which scenario is better for the guy that actually wants to hunt?

Don’t push for states to do something stupid and force everyone to apply.

 

[ckleeves]

That may be true, but at least you’d have some guys being forced to “cash out” instead of holding indefinitely. In a perfect world if this system was implemented from the start you may not have so many super high point areas to begin with as people would’ve been drawing there and actually using their points.

I’m not sure how it would work. I don’t see it helping I guess. Colorado has the oldest point system so it’s easy to look at how it’s worked long term. This year if the same guys stay in the draw 5 out of 6 will draw a very desirable ( nw corner) bull tag with 31 points going in. There are only 24 non residents who have more points than them. So that tag has stayed very close to max points. If half of those 24 with more points had chosen this unit at any time in the last 30 years and been forced to apply and drawn out then this years applicants would still be years away.

Demand way outstrips supply. Guys can accumulate points since the beginning of a draw system and in 30 years when they decide it’s time to burn them they will find a handful of other guys who started at the same time have chased that particular high demand tag up to where they all still haven’t drawn out applying for it every year.

 

[dieselchessy]

Demand far outweighs supply. Points of any type don’t change, fix, or in anyway improve that situation.

The only way to reduce demand is to implement limitations and waiting periods. Similar to what Idaho and several other states do. There just needs to be limitations that are much more restrictive so as to spread out the demand.

Simple things can work. For instance, for many years Washington only had 1 elk draw category, bull and cow tags in the same draw, and if you drew you lost your points.

This made it so dedicated big bull guys weren’t competing with guys willing to put in for lower quality bull tags and cow tags.
The cow tag folks didn’t compete with the big bull folks and vice versa. Cow tags were pretty easy to draw, and bull tags were reletively easy.

Then they created all these categories, quality bull, bull, cow, ect… and everyone has points in each, and you only burn that categories points when you draw. Now everyone puts in for cow tags and bull tags. And now it’s hard to draw anything. Cause we are all competing against each other for the same tags.

Things like that would force people to make a choice and spread out the demand. Similar to Idaho making you choose between going for a goat,sheep,moose tag or Deer, elk, antelope.
Spreading out the demand.

But the states love the income from selling points in every category. They don’t want to fix the system cause that would reduce their income.