When do you move on to other options?

[IsThisHeaven]

Some small businesses treat customers as replaceable; dime a dozen, which they are. What these businesses do not realize is they are also replaceable. I run into this all the time, especially with small construction type projects at home. The work is well within the scope of their advertised services. At times it can take an act of God to get anyone to return a call. This is when I am clear in a voicemail - I am replacing a deck, bathroom, whatever, and would like to schedule a time for an estimate.

I ordered arrows from the local bow shop last summer. They were out of stock so they had to order them. I called two weeks, then a month later, still no arrows. They got short with me and made it clear they would call. I have yet to receive that call. I went to another shop an hour away and they were happy to sell me the arrows. I ended up buying a new bow at this shop a month later.

The local gun shop took 3 weeks to mount a new scope on a muzzleloader. On the next scope I stopped into Sportsmans Warehouse to ask how long it would take to mount a scope. They told me to bring it in and would do it on the spot.

I don't take any of these interactions personally at all. They are running their own business and trying to make money. I view it as purely business. The other side of that coin is I have no allegiance or sense of loyalty. I also will not continue to waste time or consider spending money with them. Deck builders, bow shops, etc. are all dime a dozen as well. They are easily replaceable (I am not sure some realize this part of it).

The really good ones, or the businesses that provide a very unique good/service, can get away with some of this stuff. Most of them can be replaced easily. It is not worth continuing to call/email businesses that don't respond. They have made it clear they are not interested in your business. Move on. Eventually you will find what you are looking for.

 

[FLAK]

When my son was little he shot an XXL Raccoon while squirrel hunting and I wanted to have it rugged for him, like a bear.
Called my taxidermist that I have been using for 25+ yrs., and they basically just told me they didn't want to fool with it, "wasn't worth their time".
Haven't been back since (10 years ago).
It works both ways.

 

[Marble]

I can't imagine wanting to work with someone so badly that I would go through all of that effort to get them to call me back. What you are describing to me sounds like someone who doesn't know, or simply doesn't care about how to run a business. If they are so busy that they do not have the ability to return phone calls that means they should be making enough money to hire someone to answer the phone for them. If they have so many repeat customers that they don't need new business, well, good for them. I'll find someone who wants my business and demonstrates it by returning a phone call.

There is a pretty well known rifle builder here in the valley that I wanted to do business with. I actually broke my own rule and called them three times...no return phone call at any point. I guess I didn't use the proper code words for them so my business went to a local one-man shop that knocked it out of the park for me.

If it's that hard to get a hold of someone to do business with them I wonder what your experience would be like if you ever had an issue with the product or service that you were paying them for?

The last part of this the major thing for me.

If I have an issue or need assistance, will I be able to get it? The only way to judge this is by their actions and other customers insights.

Customers will pay more money and wait longer for a product if they have good communications from companies and feel they are treated correctly.

It doesn't matter what business you are in. The customer is the most important aspect of your business and without them, you wouldn't have a business. Treat your customers like family and how you expect to be treated and you will have very loyal following.



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[DanimalW]

I always find it interesting working with small business owners. I have found through the years that some of the best at custom type trades (which I consider guiding a part of), rifle builders, etc., are fantastic at what they do.....but not very good at running a business, communication, etc.

A couple of quick examples.

Called a local, very well known rifle builder. Interested in what he could offer on a custom hunting build. Nothing after two weeks.

Used "contact us" on a well recognized outfitters site. NADA 3 weeks later.

Another well represented and respected outfitter. In all fairness he did call, but unfortunately I was on a conf call and couldn't take it. I called back...twice. He sent 3 different emails saying "I will call you in the morning". Nothing further, no calls.

I have worked with other outfitters in the past that were very responsive. Sometimes it would take a few days. No worries.

When do you say "Its time to move on". I get life happens, people get busy, etc. etc. At some point though....

If someone can’t find the time to take the call for a sales opportunity, then just imagine how big of a pain it will be working with them down the road once they already have your money.

 

[butcherboy]

I don't know which post it was but someone mentioned why wouldn't I call someone back during business hours if they leave a message. I never said I wouldn't call them back during business hours just that some calls go unanswered. the ones that aren't returned are the ones just fishing for info. I own and operate a commercial meat processing plant so we get a lot of phone calls just checking prices. If they leave a msg about that we simply don't have the time to return 15 or more calls a day just to explain prices. If a msg is left about scheduling an animal then we always call those back and maybe half of those animals are booked because the customer doesn't like the wait time to get their animal in. We are currently booking into May 2021. Someone may have 1 beef and they always say "you can't squeeze just one in"? I'll have 15-20 like that every week. How can I squeeze them in when we already have 15 beef and 20 hogs for that week? We process about 4 beef per day then the other two days for pigs and then starting the cuing/smoking process. Sometimes it's only 10 beef and then 3 days for pigs. I'm not only an owner but also an employee. I'm right there with my other employees on the processing floor or the slaughter floor. My oldest sister also works with me and she is the secretary/accountant/book keeper/meat wrapper/customer relations. If she is helping a customer with their meat and i have the saw running, the phone goes unanswered. Sometimes we both are loading a customers meat like yesterday. She was helping one that was picking up 3 beef and I was helping one that picked up 5 beef. The phone goes unanswered. If a msg for scheduling an animal is left then my sister will call back as soon as she gets a chance. For every 1 animal we miss it seems like someone else will book 5 or more at a time. Just last week we slaughtered 15 beef in one day from one customer that was booked 3 months ago.

Now, for wild game. We decided this year not to process wg commercially anymore. 30 years is long enough to deal with the mess. Lol we used to push domestic back just to bring in wg and then run two shifts to get everything processed. I spent way too much time away from family so we decided to stop. Besides, I would need to process about 30 elk to make the same money from processing 10 beef. Our voice msg says that we are no longer processing wg yet people still leave msgs asking us to process just their animal. How many does everyone think that will add up to in a week? Some get really mad at us when we answer the phone and they want to bring in an elk and we tell them we no longer process wg. I'm a firm believer in that most hunters should learn to process their own and that it needs to be part of the hunting experience. If some are angry we don't process wg anymore, I get that but they should also understand that we made a sound business decision. I had one hunter actually tell me that he hopes we survive and stay open but he doubted we would! I guess he didn't realize that wg is seasonal and it's domestic animals that keep us running all year.

Sorry for the long post but I felt the need to explain myself a little further. Wishing everyone a Merry Christmas and stay healthy and safe.

 

[Glory]

One thing that needs to be brought up is tire kicking. Many companies now force you to tire kick because they don’t publish prices. So you contact them for a price to find out you aren’t even remotely interested at the price they have.

 

[butcherboy]

Here’s why we don’t publish prices. It’s simple, prices change. If you post them on a website then you are obligated to charge that price whether the price was raised or not. Sometimes, we just plain forget to update our website so we just don’t publish the prices. Calling during business ours is the best way to get a price quote and even email is good because I can answer that from my phone sitting in my living room.

 

[T28w]

Do these gun builders advertise or how are people getting a number to call them.

Specifically asking about high end guys

If I had to guess these guys don’t advertise and don’t pick up the phone because they don’t have to. They charge more than most because no one is better, which is diff from saying they are the best, and they are as busy as they want to be. So no reason to keep stoping what they are doing and literally waste 5 min to tell someone sorry I can’t do it, or even more frustrating to a potential customer, I don’t want to. If you already have all the clients you want, why would you risk taking on an ahole your next build.

If these people needed or wanted more money they would pick up the phone.

 

[gearguywb]

I was not referring to just gun builders, the same issue has happened to me in the past several weeks with outfitters.

I get the "we are already busy so we don't answer calls".

If you have an issue with something they built/finished.....how do you get in touch with them? Leave a message and hope one day they will find the time to call?

One of the custom pistol smiths that I shot for had a stated policy (this was before internet days). "I answer the phone between 3-5PM, the rest of my work day is spent working on the various projects in the shop. Please call during that time".

 

[DunnCoHunter]

My family owns and operates a small business. Our phones are constantly ringing, but we always take the time to get back to people no matter how small of a sale it may be. I understand that may not be everyone’s style, but I don’t understand the attitude of some people acting almost annoyed when you call to inquire about a product or service.


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[orionsbrother]

Just a counterpoint. Maybe try calling back if you haven’t gotten a response. Sometimes people leave messages on the answering machine and the phone number is impossible to decipher.

 

[T28w]

I was not referring to just gun builders, the same issue has happened to me in the past several weeks with outfitters.

I get the "we are already busy so we don't answer calls".

If you have an issue with something they built/finished.....how do you get in touch with them? Leave a message and hope one day they will find the time to call?

One of the custom pistol smiths that I shot for had a stated policy (this was before internet days). "I answer the phone between 3-5PM, the rest of my work day is spent working on the various projects in the shop. Please call during that time".

I can’t speak from experience as I said but I bet they pick up for folks they have done work for.

I know I’m not alone in that if your number is not in my phone, I am not answering it. U can leave a message

 

[roadrunner]

ALL businesses provide a service. Sometimes that service is the product of their labor to give you an end result of your altered property (fixed car, remodeled bathroom, etc.), or, their labor is in the form of a product you buy for your own use.

It would behoove all small business owners to take care of their customer, not to the effect of bending over backwards for a cheapskate wanting you to work for free or lose money because of their pathetic expectations, but when your labor is what keeps the lights on and a loaf of bread in the cupboard, ignoring a customer is a poor business model, even if they are just kicking the tires...

 

[Mt Al]

Do these gun builders advertise or how are people getting a number to call them.

Specifically asking about high end guys

I come at this from a slightly different view point as I used to consult for small and very small businesses, focusing on helping the owner understand how they make or lose money in a totally non-traditional-accounting context, so my reply should be kept in that context.

Some do advertise very publicly, others don't - but they might change based on changing demand or circumstances. It can take years for a small business owner to learn who their real customer base is, then focus on that group.

Funny story about that: I went into a very high end custom garment company, one man show, who told me he'd made money twice. "Twice? What do you mean?" queried I. He said, "I'm three years back ordered, I require a down payment and two customers died after I received the down payment." His phone rang off the hook all day long and it drove him nuts. Most callers were tire kickers/time wasters - but you never know who might turn into a cash cow. As previously mentioned, not everyone's trying to build a big business. They just want to do what they love and make "functional art" (also previously mentioned) and live their lives. This guy did end up getting a nicer message on his answering machine and finally hired an assistant.

Some custom gun makers build up a small, repeat client base and never have to advertise - but did in the past in order to get there. Many of these are one person operations. One older gentleman, a legend in custom guns and gun work, has a list of clients waiting for him to call them when he has capacity for the next gun. This list includes a few pro sports team owners. He hasn't been out of work for decades - but starved for many years to get where he is.

Others want to build a larger business, standardize or outsource or hire and train staff and take all the work they can get - but then volume reduces the perceived value of their goods. All part of the game.

My perspective after spending time with several of these people and gaining insight into how they make and lose money - but only if I really want their service - is to call and email and tell them I'd be happy to pay their hourly rate for an initial discussion.

 

[Rich M]

I bought a boat last year (what timing!). Took a dozen dealers to find a guy who would talk cause we'd need to order the boat from mfr. I offered to use them for warranty work and he said to use whoever was certified and closest.

Hunting guide, guns sales, etc. They get 1 call and if no response, moving along. If they won't call back now, how they gonna treat you once they have your money?

 

[Kevin Dill]

I do feel like I tend to chase businesses more than I ever used to. It’s almost the norm to leave voice messages, drop an email, wait a day or three, touch base, and maybe get a question answered. I used to be one of those who moved on quickly, but not so much now. Being patient with people has brought me opportunities I’d have never gotten if I’d been more abrupt. I’m not suggesting anyone else do this...just that it works for me and it lowers my frustration level a bit, too.

I think most small businesses are keenly attuned to what they hear from a caller. Tone, inflection, attitude and the requests being made often affect how willingly a response will be made. Businesses like to work with people who are friendly, unhurried, relaxed and not bringing the pressure.

I can’t really say when it’s time to give up and move on. In many cases I’m contacting more than one person or business about a single need, and comparing responses. I recently visited 3 local insurance agencies about a quote for a policy on a fairly expensive piece of property. I told them I would compare quotes....make a decision quickly...and write a check for the full year. One agency replied the same day. One needed 3 days. One never did contact me. You can’t spend money with people who won’t ask for it.

 

[timekiller13]

I don't wait around too long. If you can't call me back within a reasonable time frame (24-48 hours) I move on. You are either too busy or just don't care enough to give me the time of day.

I have been dealing with this issue for past several months on getting some work done around my house. Can't get most to even call me back, the few that do say "I will get out there and get an estimate on X day." THen they never show. I even offered one guy $150 cash to come give me an estimate on my fireplace remodel. $150 in his pocket, whether he got the job or not. Didn't matter if he did the job or not, I was going to give him $150. He said "I will be out there Mon day between 12 and 3pm." No show, no phone call no text. He called me back 5 days later and said "Sorry man, got busy, can I come out another day." The answer is no. I understand people get busy, but all it takes in this modern world is one text that says "Can't make it today, let's reschedule."

Same thing happened when I needed a new roof. 7 different companies called. Most wouldn't even return a phone call. Two scheduled appointments and never showed. Finally got a guy to come out. Even though he was a little more than I intended on spending, he showed up, gave me a written quote and a time frame. He go my business and in turn also got my parent's business and my in laws business.

From a hunting standpoint, I have only ever dealt with one "outfitter." It was a unguided transport only hunt in Alaska. The owners were very responsive, all emails answered within 24 hours. Even though they had plenty of business, they were willing to talk with me and arrange a hunt for myself and my Dad. Because of their willingness to be helpful, I will use them again in the future, even if there may be a less expensive options out there.

 

[FOS373]

I have called / emailed 3 smiths to thread and chamber a barrel and was very specific of what action, barrel, chamber and asked about cost and timing. None have returned my inquiry. Business must be so good they don't need the work. I just ordered something else.

I ordered a "custom" bumper for my truck (custom meaning he has the design and just needs to make it). Quotes 8-12 weeks. Week 13 I ask where it is; about a month. Week 20; 2-3 weeks. At 3 weeks + 2 days he calls and says its ready. In the mean time, he's posting about free powder coating on new orders; I ask if I get that as well....... nope. Not once was he proactive; I will not recommend his product regardless how good it is.

I've been self-employed for nearly 15 years. You make the time to answer the emails / calls; it is part of the "business". You must be proactive in communication.

And FWIW, I emailed Doug at CameraLand about a specific scope availability and pricing; he emailed back on Sunday saying he'd check on Monday. He called and emailed me on Monday. He wants the business and although it didn't work out this time, I will purchase from them in the future.

 

[Kilboars]

I’ve known business owners that do not have voicemails because if they did they’d spend have of each day call them back.

Good to be busy though.


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