What would you give up to save OTC opportunities?

Nsmith163

FNG
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Jan 8, 2020
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We all know the story--hunter recruitment increasing across the west at the same time as predator populations, causing stress to elk and deer populations resulting in declining herds. In many states, political forces are preventing effective predator management, so states are reducing elk and deer hunting opportunities (whether it's effective or not is another story) to slow the declining populations. As a result, many OTC hunting opportunities are now becoming draw tags, and in many states point creep is making draw tags increasingly more difficult to draw.

All this raises a question--can new approaches to hunting regulations save OTC opportunities while simultaneously improving herd numbers and/or hunt quality? Personally, I think it is possible, but raises a question of what would you give up to save OTC opportunities. Specifically, would you give up your "modern" advantages in order to preserve OTC hunts?

By "modern" advantages I do not mean trail cameras, OnX, etc. I mean, would you hunt with only traditional equipment (stick bow and/or open breach, open sight muzzleloader) if this meant you could hunt elk/deer OTC every year?

I think this would likely have multiple impacts. First, hunter numbers would decrease, as hunting with traditional equipment may be magnitudes more difficult. Second, success would also decrease, as it would be harder to bring elk/deer into your effective range. Third, populations and/or quality would improve because fewer hunters and lower success rates could mean more animals and/or better bull/cow ratios and/or better bull/buck quality. Fourth, it could have a positive effect on how the public views hunting.

I want to hear folks' thoughts on this specific issue--would you hunt with a stick bow and/or muzzleloader if that was what would allow OTC opportunities to remain?

For the record, I shoot a Prime CT5 and am building my first "extended" range rifle. But, I think I would hunt trad if it meant I could hunt elk every year in areas with better hunt quality.
 

Gerbdog

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Jun 8, 2020
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CO Springs
I'd be happy to shoot traditional for OTC opportunities... i just like hunting. They could reduce me to rocks and a long stick to hunt with and i'd still be out there trying my best.

I probably think plenty of hunters would pick up the traditional bow, think themselves the pro, and then go fling 100 yard shots with it still... i suspect there would be a whole lot of wounded animals out there....

but heck i also think i want OTC opportunities just cause i live in the state i hunt... im just a selfish hunter though... dont mind me.
 

BullsDeep

Lil-Rokslider
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Oct 16, 2017
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For a the sake of conversation this can be talked about but further than that, it will never be use trad equipment or were taking otc away. Imo. But yes if that's what it came down to as long as I'm chasing bulls in September I would use a sharp pencil if I had to.
 
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
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depends on each person's situation. As a midwesterner with a young family i've went from 3+ weeks of western hunting annually to 1 or maybe 2 if i'm lucky. I've never had an OTC tag other than in AK. If you play the game in multiple states and species it's still very easy for me to get a tag each year. There is magnitudes more opportunity than there is time for me to use it.

I'd rather they take rifle hunts out of the rut to decrease harvest than give out fewer rifle tags.
 
Joined
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I don’t see where it can be saved. Too many hunters. Thousand yard rifles, 500 yard muzzleloaders laser rangefinder crossbows…. The nails are already in the coffin
Realistically I think the tech things you listed pale in comparison to loss of habitat, increase of human caused animal stress, rifle seasons during the rut, and excessive season structures (Ex: 11 week general season in MT). But yeah, Elk OTC opportunity, especially for NR, are gone.
 

tdhanses

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I don’t see where it can be saved. Too many hunters. Thousand yard rifles, 500 yard muzzleloaders laser rangefinder crossbows…. The nails are already in the coffin
Who is shooting 500yds with a muzzle loader and open sights? That is impressive if most can do that.
 
Joined
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Id give us money.
I'll pay $1200 for a resident license to push out the fudds.
But I don't think modern weapons have increased the success that much. And I don't think heard size would increase much.
Habitat loss and predators are the main contributing factors.
 
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Going primitive would not improve the general public’s view of hunting. Lots of maimed and rotting animals right after the various archery seasons here in AZ. It is very bad right after archery elk; great for hunting black bear though due to the volume of rotting elk carcasses. That is not the best visual and aroma you want to give to the granola eaters and have them associate with hunting.

Going primitive would reduce the number of hunters. You either have to accept less money for habitat restoration and improvements. This would never happen due to no government agency being able to run with less money. So license and tag costs would have to increase accordingly. Which then would cause hunters to whine that hunting has become a rich person’s sport.

Go straight draw with one week hunts.
 

Ucsdryder

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Pretty simple, it almost hurts my brain. How about this…

If you get a Colorado tag, you MUST use your points. The whole points plus a tag is part of the issue. A big part. You’d see some crazy point creep short term but you’d also see a lot of guys skipping a season or 2 to build points.


There are 50 tweaks that would help pressure, but with every tweak comes bitching and moaning from a segment of point holders, and it just doesn’t seem like they want to deal with it.
 

Fordguy

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I'd be more than happy to cut back to primitive weapons only. On the muzzleloader side I'd like to see it go as far as sidelock ignition, patch and ball or full bore bullet only, no 209 primer. I had more fun and more satisfying experiences with those methods than I ever did with modern equipment and strangely enough my success rate was close to the same. It just took a little more effort to make sure that I was prepared.
 

tdhanses

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Pretty simple, it almost hurts my brain. How about this…

If you get a Colorado tag, you MUST use your points. The whole points plus a tag is part of the issue. A big part. You’d see some crazy point creep short term but you’d also see a lot of guys skipping a season or 2 to build points.


There are 50 tweaks that would help pressure, but with every tweak comes bitching and moaning from a segment of point holders, and it just doesn’t seem like they want to deal with it.
I agree, either build pts or hunt but you can’t do both.
 

tdhanses

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I'd be more than happy to cut back to primitive weapons only. On the muzzleloader side I'd like to see it go as far as sidelock ignition, patch and ball or full bore bullet only, no 209 primer. I had more fun and more satisfying experiences with those methods than I ever did with modern equipment and strangely enough my success rate was close to the same. It just took a little more effort to make sure that I was prepared.
Yeah but many wouldn’t like that me included, guess we don’t all want to go back to the 1800’s in equipment, might as well outlaw modern clothes and boots etc if your going to require that tech in your hunting tool.
 

Ucsdryder

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Yeah but many wouldn’t like that me included, guess we don’t all want to go back to the 1800’s in equipment, might as well outlaw modern clothes and boots etc.
I’d love primitive. Imagine straight walled rifle cartridges, stick bows, and flint locks. In 5 years the age class would be out of this world. I’d gladly kill less to have legitimate chances at 300” bulls at 170” bucks on a regular basis in MOST GMUs.
 

cnelk

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Several years ago the CPW tried to go ‘primitive’ with muzzleloaders.
No inlines allowed.

It didn’t last long. I seriously doubt they would try that again
 
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