Views on Hunting w/Dogs

[bowieknife50]

Hi everyone I'm bored so here's something. I am curious to know peoples' views on hunting with dogs and I'd like to format the answers to facilitate comparison. I'll ask the questions then answer them so everyone knows my views. I'm not planning on making another post on this thread except that if a direct question is asked I'll respond.

1. Do you think hunting with hounds for legal game is ethical?
2. What is your strongest reason in support of your answer?
3. Have you ever been on or a part of a hunt using hounds?
4. Do you think using dogs for bird hunting is ethical?
5. What, if any, distinction do you see between the two?

1. Yes
2. I've seen enough game get away from hounds I don't think it's any less fair chase than any other method/I love the music.
3. Lots and lots of them.
4. Yes
5. None

Please be honest and respectful to everyone's opinion. Feel free to write more thorough answers.

Go


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[Glendon Mullins]

Having been on forums for many years, including running one in virginia where in part of the state dog hunting for deer is legal, from past experience, these threads tend to go south quick, 1st hint of that and I am closing this thread down. Just letting ya'll know this ahead of time. However carry on, as long as everyone keeps there cool, could be a great discussion.

 

[Glendon Mullins]

and with that being said, I will play along:

1. Do you think hunting with hounds for legal game is ethical?
Yes I do
2. What is your strongest reason in support of your answer?
I have hunting all manner of game with dogs, from rabbit and squirrel, to deer and bear. It's far from a sure thing, and not nearly as "easy" as folks make it out to be
3. Have you ever been on or a part of a hunt using hounds?
Yes, I have hunt the following game with dogs: Rabbit, Squirrel, Coon, Bear, Deer
4. Do you think using dogs for bird hunting is ethical?
sure
5. What, if any, distinction do you see between the two?
There are differences between "still hunting/spot n stalk" and hunting anything with dogs. Hunting with dogs to me is a more fast paced type of hunt generally (at least here in the east) in which you enjoy the camaraderie of your hunting family/partners more so than being isolated in a tree 2 miles from anywhere sitting in silence. Both to me are fun, and both present different challenges

 

[Yotekiller]

1. Yes
2. Man domesticated dogs for hunting, not to have an obese, pain in the rear to take care of. Humans would not be where we are today without dogs. Training a pack of hounds is one of the most expensive, time consuming, and difficult tasks to master. Very few ever get where they want to be. From the outside it looks easy. When you are the one making the mistakes it gets hard in a hurry. It can also be one of the most gratifying outdoor sports a man can participate in.
3. Own a pack.
4. Yes
5. None

 

[dirtclod Az.]

NO!!!!Spot and stalk or go home.

 

[Shrek]

and with that being said, I will play along:

1. Do you think hunting with hounds for legal game is ethical?
Yes I do
2. What is your strongest reason in support of your answer?
I have hunting all manner of game with dogs, from rabbit and squirrel, to deer and bear. It's far from a sure thing, and not nearly as "easy" as folks make it out to be
3. Have you ever been on or a part of a hunt using hounds?
Yes, I have hunt the following game with dogs: Rabbit, Squirrel, Coon, Bear, Deer
4. Do you think using dogs for bird hunting is ethical?
sure
5. What, if any, distinction do you see between the two?
There are differences between "still hunting/spot n stalk" and hunting anything with dogs. Hunting with dogs to me is a more fast paced type of hunt generally (at least here in the east) in which you enjoy the camaraderie of your hunting family/partners more so than being isolated in a tree 2 miles from anywhere sitting in silence. Both to me are fun, and both present different challenges

This is a great answer that I agree with. I’ve also hunted both with and without dogs. Bird hunting without a dog just isn’t as fun imo. There is often conflict in the east due to limited amount of hunting land available. Running deer , hogs , or bear with hounds takes a lot of land.

 

[S.Clancy]

1. In certain locales and for certain species. Running deer and elk in the west I would question, but deer or bears in the south, which is a giant swamp, I could definitely see it.
2. It would get savaged by non-hunters in the west to watch a dog run a deer or elk.
3. No
4. I have a bird dog, so yes.
5. Honestly, I just look at the picture it paints. When you see wolves (basically dogs) run deer or elk, you generally don't feel great about it. It's a weird reason, buts thats what comes to mind.

*** I would like to use dogs in the recovery of game, that would limit waste immensely***

 

[sndmn11]

1. Do you think hunting with hounds for legal game is ethical?
2. What is your strongest reason in support of your answer?
3. Have you ever been on or a part of a hunt using hounds?
4. Do you think using dogs for bird hunting is ethical?
5. What, if any, distinction do you see between the two?
Go

1) Yes, I wish here in Colorado that they would be legal again for bears. I think for "predators" they are a fantastic tool for management and opportunities should be expanded for that. The only use of dogs that I have thought to be borderline unethical is when greyhounds pick apart a coyote after multiple run/battle/run/battle/run/battle sequences. In those instances, I would like to see the handler intervene at some point to complete the kill, but I understand that there are complications in that want.
2) Nearly every instance I can think of, the one example above in contrast, hunting with a trained dog yields a more ethical result than without. Bears and cats are treed for presumably better shot opportunities, flushed birds should be closer for a prepared hunter, waterfowl stands a better chance of being recovered, decoying coyotes seems to produce multiple opportunities to choose from.
3) No, but I have a 5 month old Wirehaired Pointing Griffon sleeping belly up on top of my feet, and we will be a bird hunting team shortly.
4) Yes
5) Between bird dogs and hound dogs the distinction to me is the potential for a violent altercation with the prey. While it is possible for a bird dog to kill or injure the prey, the ability of flight seems to minimize that.

When I was researching breeds, decoying coyotes came up and I found myself on youtube watching some neat videos. A random click on one of the side videos gave me a huge laugh when a red kangaroo got some sort of chase dog in a headlock and when the hunter arrived it looked like they were two pre-teen boys horsing around.

 

[dirtclod Az.]

I have dogs and love dogs,but refrain from allowing them to chase game.

 

[skaldugwas]

1. For all legal game no. For predators yes, varmints, and birds yes. I have no idea why I don’t like the thought of running ungulates with hounds. Maybe i’m not against it as much as it doesn’t appeal to me. I think dogs should be allowed in the recovery of all animals.

2. There is no better way to manage predators aside from trapping. It also lets you better field judge an animal you normally only get a glimpse of without hounds if you are lucky so folks tend to shoot first and judge later. Hounds are the only catch and release in hunting.

3. Never with hounds, although its been a lifelong dream of mine since I was a kindergartener. Lately though I’m not sure if could shoot a bear out of a tree and feel good about it. I don’t have a problem with others doing it, but I don’t think its for me anymore.

4. Not only ethical, but birddogs that are trained to retrieve or hunt dead are conservation tools that help you recover birds you would have lost on your own.

5 .without getting into semantics I see no difference. They are two sides to the same coin. Although hound guys and birddog guys are very different kinds of people but thats a different discussion.


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[JP100]

One thing I have often wondered(and a few friends) is why is no one using dogs for pointing, ie still hunting deer with pointers. Is that not legal in North America in general?

Lots of guys here hunt with dogs, for a number of species. Pig hunting is generally bail/hold type deal(similar to how I imagine cat/bear hunting is with dogs), but lots of guys are using dogs for stalking deer in the bush, its very effective and in no way un ethical. It may give an 'advantage' to the hunter for sure, but so do lots of things.

1. Do you think hunting with hounds for legal game is ethical?
Yes, within reason. I have no issue with dogs bailing/baying game and tracking/hounding them. Holding them can sometimes be a grey area and there is lots of variables.

2. What is your strongest reason in support of your answer?
Its perfectly natural, game is naturally hunted by 'dogs'(wolves/coyotes) and most game has evolved with this type of hunting pressure.

3. Have you ever been on or a part of a hunt using hounds?
Yes, pigs,goats,rabbits,wallabies,waterfowl and deer.
Dogs on pigs can be very different depending on the style of dog and terrain. most hunts I have been on we are using bailers which just bail/bay the pigs with barking etc. There is no harm to the pig or the dogs generally.
I have done a few hunts with proper holders and it can be rough. A small pig with big dogs is not pretty, a big pig with small dogs is not pretty.
I think most 'dog hunters' have the well being of their dogs in their best interest and do the best the can to minimizes injuries/stress on both ends. But there are always exceptions to that.

Hunting small game and big game with a pointer is very good fun I think, takes alot of skill from the dog and trainer, and is very impressive what a good dog can do.

4. Do you think using dogs for bird hunting is ethical?
Yes, why wouldn't it be?
Using retrievers causes no damage/harm to anything and the dogs enjoy it.
Good pointers give an 'advantage' to the hunter for sure, but so do lots of things(modern gear gives us lots of 'advantages' )

5. What, if any, distinction do you see between the two?
I dont have a problem with either as long as the dogs are well cared for and the hunters show respect for their dogs and the game which is true 99% of the time.

 

[hunter4life]

1. Yes
2. I hunt lions and bears. Killing a lion without dogs is essentially sheer luck and most that are killed by happenstance are subadults or females. The use of dogs allows you to evaluate the animal and let it go if it is not what you want. I honestly think bears have a better chance of getting away when chased by dogs than killed by spot and stalk (which is quite easy in the open country we have here in NM).
3. Yes, My brothers have hounds and I have jagdterriers that we run with them as well.
4. Yes
5. None

 

[mproberts]

1. Do you think hunting with hounds for legal game is ethical?
Yes in the majority of situations it is ethical.

2. What is your strongest reason in support of your answer?
I have no issues with it being ethical but more issues with how much it can disturb the hunting for everyone else trying to hunt. As long as the considerations of others are balanced I have no issues with it when done properly. I just know from growing up in a state that allows running dogs for deer that it is pointless to be in the woods during firearms season when the dogs aren't running. You basically can only hunt deer during bow or muzzleloader seasons, as soon as firearms season comes in the dogs come out. Which basically means the deer never move outside being pushed by dogs. It effectively closes or limits the season for guys that aren't running dogs.

It is also very contentious in the east because the dogs push everything, their land, your land, public land, you name it. I also think a lot of people take issue with it because there are definitely a few bad representative dog owners that ruin the image for the guys that do it the right way. I have personally seen more of the bad owners than good ones, guys that literally just unload dogs from the pound with no intention of picking them up, or guys that severely neglect their dogs (malnourished, injured, diseased, bug infested). Even guys that will shot dogs who don't run, and don't see any issue with shooting them.

3. Have you ever been on or a part of a hunt using hounds?
Yes

4. Do you think using dogs for bird hunting is ethical?
Yes

5. What, if any, distinction do you see between the two?
To quote someone else.. "I dont have a problem with either as long as the dogs are well cared for and the hunters show respect for their dogs and the game which is true 99% of the time." .. I also think the consideration for other hunters needs to be balanced, which is also true 99% of the time.

 

[Desk Jockey]

1 yes but like all methods of take it needs regulation
2 historical use and improved efficacy. Hunting is filled with observations of historical and traditional use - flint lock seasons here in PA come to mind. Trad archery. Part of our culture as hunters is a reconnection and preservation of historical and traditional practices. Plus, it increase efficacy for upland birds and rabbits over alternatives like driven hunts. A good retrievers utility in a duck hunt is self evident after the first shot.
3 rabbit, ducks and upland birds
4 yes as long as the dogs are humanely treated
5 I don’t have any first hand experience in hunting bear, lions or deer with dogs but I support it. The must significant difference I see is the external perception particularly for non hunters. The optics of a lab jumping into the water to retrieve a duck are different than a pack of hounds running down a deer to non hunters. Hunters have to be careful about how the practice is perceived and portrayed or it will be cast in a negative light by those who oppose it and it will be banned, like bear hunting in New Jersey for example.

 

[blackdawg]

Yes, I’m 110% about hunting with dogs. It adds an incredible amount to the outdoor experience! Don’t knock it unless you have tried it. Watching a great retriever at work, a pack of coon hounds treed in the river bottom, beagles working a thicket for cottontails, springer spaniels flushing pheasants out of the cattails and many more examples could be tossed out for some of the best times possible.Most dog breeds have a purpose and it is a fascinating journey to train them to be their very best. I come from a long line of dog men, here’s a picture of my grandpa in 1962 in the Mississippi Delta hunting whitetails with hounds

and another picture of my other grandfather with a couple of his “bird” dogs in the 1930’s

And one of ole black dawg when he was much younger with one of my finest ol “Ace”

and the famous tv star ones get immortalized by artists , this was “Tank”

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[elkyinzer]

1. Do you think hunting with hounds for legal game is ethical?
In most cases, yes

2. What is your strongest reason in support of your answer?
As long as the meat is used and the hunt is sporting, I have no issue at face value. However, for many species cultural issues come into play

3. Have you ever been on or a part of a hunt using hounds?
Rabbits and coons

4. Do you think using dogs for bird hunting is ethical?
Absolutely

5. What, if any, distinction do you see between the two?
Cultural factors. Deer hounds aren't allowed here and would never fly. In the South they are accepted practice. I would be pretty hosed if I was sitting in my deer stand enjoying a peaceful morning and a pack of hounds ran a deer by. They effect other hunters in ways that less invasive hunting practices do not. It isn't an accepted cultural practice here for deer. I am glad it is not. It is what it is. I love watching a pack of beagles work a bunny though.

 

[BroodBuster]

1. Do you think hunting with hounds for legal game is ethical?
Yes
2. What is your strongest reason in support of your answer?
My opinion is the correct one
3. Have you ever been on or a part of a hunt using hounds?
No
4. Do you think using dogs for bird hunting is ethical?
Yes
5. What, if any, distinction do you see between the two?
Bird dogs are necessary to be a consistently successful bird hunter. Same with hounds on mountain lion hunts. I don't think running deer with hounds is a great way to hunt ungulates and the lactic acid buildup basically ruins the meat so that's nothing I'd ever do but I like hound hunters and love hounds so I support them. And I'd love to be able to hunt with a bird dog at my side. Not that I'd use them to run deer or elk but I see more game with her at my side and it would be nice having her with me after the shot. And I absolutely hate having to kennel her for week when I go big game hunting .

 

[BroodBuster]

Bird hunting without a dog just isn’t as fun imo.

Ayup! My pup is 15 now and sort of self retired two seasons ago. A pheasant ran across the trail not 3 feet in front of her and she just looked at me with a look that said, "Yea I remember when we'd chase those things. Can we go back to the fire pit now?" I haven't been bird hunting since even though there are a lot of younger bird dogs in the crew I could hunt over/with. But no way I'm leaving my pup behind to go bird hunting. I still join the crew on our fall trips but Sage and I go fishing instead.

 

[LostArra]

1. Do you think hunting with hounds for legal game is ethical?
In most cases, yes

2. What is your strongest reason in support of your answer?
As long as the meat is used and the hunt is sporting, I have no issue at face value. However, for many species cultural issues come into play

3. Have you ever been on or a part of a hunt using hounds?
Rabbits and coons

4. Do you think using dogs for bird hunting is ethical?
Absolutely

5. What, if any, distinction do you see between the two?
Cultural factors. Deer hounds aren't allowed here and would never fly. In the South they are accepted practice. I would be pretty hosed if I was sitting in my deer stand enjoying a peaceful morning and a pack of hounds ran a deer by. They effect other hunters in ways that less invasive hunting practices do not. It isn't an accepted cultural practice here for deer. I am glad it is not. It is what it is. I love watching a pack of beagles work a bunny though.

This ^^ sums it all up for me without much typing.


"Hunting with Dogs" is a little too broad of a stroke.

Bird and waterfowl hunting with dogs is a beautiful sight after hours of training.

Never had the opportunity to hunt cats or bears with dogs but looks exciting.

Deer and coon hunting with dogs becomes problematic when it affects hunters not involved with the dogs since dogs are just terrible about reading No Trespassing signs and honoring property boundaries. Even on public land if one guy is running deer with dogs it can affect every hunter in the area. If a deer hunter running hounds has the right locale I can see it working but after owning a redbone for 14 years it's a risky proposition in tight quarters.

 

[dr.mooseknuckles]

I have a very strong opinion on this being a veterinarian and an avid deer and duck hunter, both on personal experiences and from an ethical stand point.

I have NO problem whatsoever with using dogs for birds, whether retrieving or upland game. I have no issues with bears for more dangerous game such as bears, lions, and hogs. I rather enjoy it

I have a BIG issue with using dogs to run deer. Here is the ethical part and where my personal experience comes in. My family has 1000 acres of property in Alabama that is bordered by 3 dirt roads. A nearby white trash family routinely and illegally, without any hint of permission, would put their dogs on one side of the property and run them to the other. Hunting from a dirt road is highly illegal, surprisingly, in Alabama. These weiners would leave their guns in their trucks until the tracking collars pinged super close, and then perform a highly coordinated shoot and scoot maneuver to prevent the game warden from showing up. My grandfather bein a very nice, forgiving Christian man, tried to discuss this with and without the game warden involved with this family. They were not very receptive to communication. Therefore, other members of my family at a later date, made sure that certain dogs were never seen again...

On the veterinary side I find it an unethical way to hunt deer. It is not a quick and fear free way to die. They are terrified before they get popped. I've seen deer run a mile, frothing at the mouth from exertion. Anyone who knows a thing about meat care and adrenaline, knows that adrenaline does not equal high quality meat. Also, you can't really control where the dogs go, and most properties in the East aren't really big enough to dog hunt without messing with others hunting experience.

I know that I have a very jaded opinion on the matter and am not trying to stir up hate and discontent. Coincidentally, the same grandfather grew up doing dog drives in West Alabama and had no problem with it. Just didn't want guys using their dogs to poach.

Personally, for white tail deer, I think dog hunting needs to go the way of the DoDo