Users of SAC bushings in Redding type S?

[SDHNTR]

I’m playing around with some SAC bushings in my Type S dies. After switching from Redding bushings I can clearly see that the SAC ones do not size down the neck as far. The Reddings size a good 1/16-3/32” further down the neck. Normal? Or do I have something set up wrong?

 

[doverpack12]

Interesting. Curious to hear what others say. I had planned to switch everything to SAC because I thought they went further down the neck but had a bigger flare at the bottom end

 

[Lawnboi]

They are tapered by design. Watch the video on their site.

 

[SDHNTR]

They are tapered by design. Watch the video on their site.

Watched it, hmmmmmm. Interesting, there were no instructions in the package. I never even would have known that video was there until you mentioned it and I went looking.

I knew they were tapered, I just didn’t think I could visually tell a difference between them and the Redding bushings when looking at a sized neck on a piece of brass. I can. It’s obvious, at least on new brass. It’s not sizing down the neck nearly as far. I wonder what effect this has on overall neck tension/bullet grip? Tighter towards the mouth and looser towards the shoulder. What’s the end result of that versus a .002” consistent neck tension throughout the neck? Are you supposed to use the same size bushing as you would a Redding?

 

[doverpack12]

I’ve read someone saying they had to go one size smaller with SAC to get the same neck tension as tested with a feeler gauge

 

[Lawnboi]

Watched it, hmmmmmm. Interesting, there were no instructions in the package. I never even would have known that video was there until you mentioned it and I went looking.

I knew they were tapered, I just didn’t think I could visually tell a difference between them and the Redding bushings when looking at a sized neck on a piece of brass. I can. It’s obvious, at least on new brass. It’s not sizing down the neck nearly as far. I wonder what effect this has on overall neck tension/bullet grip? Tighter towards the mouth and looser towards the shoulder. What’s the end result of that versus a .002” consistent neck tension throughout the neck? Are you supposed to use the same size bushing as you would a Redding?

To me it’s resulted in more consistent neck tension, measured only by the feel on my arbor press.

A regular bushing dosnt size your entire neck either, but it can leave a doughnut, or a tight spot to pass a bullet through depending on your chamber. The taper keeps that transition smoother.

I havnt had a problem with them not sizing the whole neck. I have had issues with doughnuts caused by regular bushings.

 

[SDHNTR]

Update: I emailed SAC and they said it’s normal. They also did confirm that they recommend using one of their bushings that is .001” smaller than a standard bushing. Good to know all this, but man they sure could use instructions or a more detailed use description in the packaging, or on the website!

 

[SDHNTR]

To me it’s resulted in more consistent neck tension, measured only by the feel on my arbor press.

A regular bushing dosnt size your entire neck either, but it can leave a doughnut, or a tight spot to pass a bullet through depending on your chamber. The taper keeps that transition smoother.

I havnt had a problem with them not sizing the whole neck. I have had issues with doughnuts caused by regular bushings.

Yes I know a regular bushing doesn’t size the whole neck, but it definitely sizes noticeably further down than a SAC.

 

[Lawnboi]

Yes I know a regular bushing doesn’t size the whole neck, but it definitely sizes noticeably further down than a SAC.

I know it can be an issue in some really short neck cases like a dasher but even in my 223 I didn’t have any issues.

 

[WMag338]

Interesting topic. Following along.

 

[SDHNTR]

I know it can be an issue in some really short neck cases like a dasher but even in my 223 I didn’t have any issues.

They said in a Dasher or .223 to flip the bushing upside down and size it again… doesn’t that defeat the purpose?

 

[Lawnboi]

They said in a Dasher or .223 to flip the bushing upside down and size it again… doesn’t that defeat the purpose?

Probably, makes it a normal bushing at that point.

 

[SDHNTR]

Probably, makes it a normal bushing at that point.

My thoughts exactly. So all this fancy thing does is size less of the neck. I can do that with a Redding easily by just letting it float more or backing out the top lock ring. I’m not sure I’m buying into the hype.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

measure your concentricity and see what it does on target before you give up on it. i'm liking the SAC bushing I have, wouldn't mind having the .289 and .290 to do a bit more experimentation.

Also, there's at least one theory that bullets don't get pushed out of the neck because of force on the bullet base, but rather released from the neck because the pressure that swells the case body/shoulder also causes the neck to swell. IF that is true (and I don't know that it is), then the amount of the neck that is sized is entirely irrelevant. For at least an era in benchrest shooting, sizing only part of the neck was common practice in benchrest. the theory was that the unsized portion of the neck would contact the chamber and help improve the alignment.

 

[SDHNTR]

measure your concentricity and see what it does on target before you give up on it. i'm liking the SAC bushing I have, wouldn't mind having the .289 and .290 to do a bit more experimentation.

Also, there's at least one theory that bullets don't get pushed out of the neck because of force on the bullet base, but rather released from the neck because the pressure that swells the case body/shoulder also causes the neck to swell. IF that is true (and I don't know that it is), then the amount of the neck that is sized is entirely irrelevant. For at least an era in benchrest shooting, sizing only part of the neck was common practice in benchrest. the theory was that the unsized portion of the neck would contact the chamber and help improve the alignment.

I’ve measured concentricity versus a standard Redding bushing there is some measurable improvement. TIR went from probably .002-.003 on average down to .001-.0015 ish.

With a gold Redding bushing, I noticed no measurable improvement.

 

[Lawnboi]

My thoughts exactly. So all this fancy thing does is size less of the neck. I can do that with a Redding easily by just letting it float more or backing out the top lock ring. I’m not sure I’m buying into the hype.

The purpose of it is to create more concentric, less work hardened brass and to lessen the effect of doughnuts in your brass. Atleast that’s what Iv seen from them.

Atleast I can wrap my head around pushing a cylinder into a taper rather than cramming it in a tube.

At the very least you got a bushing that’s a lot smoother than the Redding tin coated. Iv got enough of them too

 

[Raypo]

Personally, I have tightened my SD’s using this combo (Redding S and SAC bushings). This is such a touchy subject with some, just in my own experience, I have found a bushing die followed by an expander mandrel works well for neck tension and low SD’s. I use a .003 or .004 bushing and expand back out with a .002 mandrel. No expander ball. I was doing this with the Forester BR dies but the neck tension was inconsistent based on case thickness. Using just the Redding S or Forester busing dies, I was not getting acceptable SD’s. Using the same powder, headspace, primer, and all things the same, other than the added mandrel on the Forester Busing Dies, I cut my SD’s in half.