There is a monster around here help me get him! (early scrapes?)

norman1wv

FNG
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
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22
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Wv
First off let me say that I have been hunting whitetails since I was a teenager and I'm now in my late 40's.* I have bagged my fair share of deer.* My largest buck taken was a small 8 pointer that had a prefect rack although very small in mass and spread.* I am still proud of that buck.* Lately I have been seeing a very nice 8 pointer that tends to hang-out near my home.* Season is not in yet, so all I get to do is try and snap a picture of him in his velvet. (failure so far)* My property has a medium sized stream nearby.* There is rugged hillside on one side of the stream to the east, and abandoned cornfields on the other side to the west, all along the stream for about a mile or so.* I see does and fawns frequently standing in my yard in late evening.* This 8 pointer is no dummy!... He comes in across the cornfields to bed, or crosses the stream to bed down.* I haven't jumped him from his bed yet, but I know he beds close by.* I waited on him Monday at his usual crossing but he didn't show up on time.* (Yes I have him down to the hour that he crosses which is around 6:30pm)* I gave up and decided to scout the hillside across the stream for a little bit.* At 7:15 I heard him snorting and acting upset from across this stream.* I thought to myself, yea big boy, you smell my scent don't cha?* After the 8 pointer calmed down, something caught my eye to my left.* There was two of the cutest fawns nearly 4 feet from me, jumping around, just being kids.* I gave up and headed home, but not before spotting a huge rub on a nearby pine sapling which was about 4-5 inches in diameter.* This sparked my interest to scouting more the next morning. I know it is way too early for bucks to create rubs.* This is an issue for me.* All the bucks I have seen lately are still in velvet, but this rub seemed very fresh as the sap was pouring out and the inner wood was pale and wet as well.* (don't know whats up with this, but I know some larger older bucks will shed their velvet earlier than the younger ones, but this early?)* ---anyways.......The rub looked fresh enough to look for more sign.* I got up the next morning, bright and early, way before the sun came up.* As soon as it was light enough to see a bit, I went on my way to scout.* What I found later on that morning made my spine tingle!*

I walked about 1/2 mile along a very worn deer path.* I don't normally like to walk in the path, but the hillside is so dense with vegetation that I have almost no other choice.* I walked along this "deer highway" looking around.* Eventually this path lead to a grove of pines.* I now know what a rub-line really is!* It looked as if someone had a hatchet in there scraping the bark off all the saplings!* Rubs everywhere!* There was of course old rubs.* There were old rubs that had fresh rubs over top of the previous ones.* There were many many new ones!... As the path lead out of the pine grove, it crossed a deep and dark hollow which I decided was too much for me to jump.* At this crossing was a knoll that overlooked the stream and the adjoining cornfields around 50 yards of the pine grove.* This is where I would like to set up a stand,* I have sat in this location, on this knoll for 3 days.* (not continuously, but every morning and every evening trying to spot whatever monster has already tearing up the trees!)

It is July 27th.* Deer should all still be in velvet right?* What else would create these rubs?* Elk have been reintroduced into the area but I know nothing about their behavior, and there numbers are still small.* Think 20 total in the county.* I know the knoll is a prime location.* I just know the 8 pointer's daddy is in the area.* My gut tells me he is huge, smart, and very elusive.* I have thought about the possibility that he may be nocturnal I just hope not.* The area has non-existent hunting pressure, plenty of cover/bedding areas, and lots of browse.* Perfect home for a monster buck!

What would you do?* How would you get a glimpse of him?* Should I continue to walk the path?* Should I take another route?* What is making these rubs?* Is it possible a buck has already shed his velvet?* How would you hunt him when season opens?* Wife just spotted two deer in the yard, I'm gonna end this and check them out, maybe the big daddy is tired of me invading his core area and has decided to invade mine!...*

Open to all suggestions!
 

gumbl3

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Nov 27, 2016
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530
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Texas
Take you a few hours to watch some Dan Infalt videos. Should explain everything you need to know.
 
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norman1wv

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Joined
Jul 27, 2018
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Wv
I watched a few of his videos. They really didn't interest me very much. Now if he could tell me why a deer would be making hundreds of rubs when they are still growing antlers and all the deer you see is still in very healthy velvet, now that would be interesting. Maybe I have an elk wondering around. humm...
 

Shepherd

Lil-Rokslider
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Sep 13, 2017
Messages
137
Location
Wisconsin
I would invest in some game cameras and put them in spots you think he may be traveling. If you get some photos of him, try to narrow down where he may be bedding, his food sources and travel routes (by moving some of your cameras). Then carefully pick some logical and safe spots (travel routes preferred) for treestands/blinds, keeping in mind your entry and exit routes (safe for not spooking deer). If you know where he beds and narrow down his travel routes and food sources, you stand a fair chance to kill him. By trying to spot him on the hoof, you risk clearing him out of your area.
 
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norman1wv

FNG
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
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Wv
This is the issue I am very afraid of. This deer is solitary and not used to any human interaction. I doubt this brute ever even crosses the road except during the rut. This deer has more than 100 acres of prime forest as his core area. At the "knoll" it never sees sun. Plenty of moss and ferns on the floor. 50 yards from the "knoll" is a standing pine grove with the normal pine needle floor, which is torn all up from the rubs. Then at the higher elevation you have the typical deciduous forest of oak, hickory, beech, walnut etc. Think plenty of nut bearing trees. Then we have the abandoned corn fields that are as thick as ever with thorns pretty much taking up the whole thing. Think plenty of dense cover for protection during snowfall with the occasional blackberry treat in the summer. With very much interaction this deer will change his routine. I think he has changed some already. I think my best chance of seeing this "marvel of my curiosity" is to set up a trail cam. I will walk another route in when I go from now on. Ill use the "knoll" as a place to hang out every week or two. Just sit there and enjoy nature at its finest and hope one day I get to finally see something.
 

Shepherd

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Sep 13, 2017
Messages
137
Location
Wisconsin
Sounds like you have some excellent habitat for the big guy. It appears you have thick tangled areas for bedding, the stream nearby, and some browse and nuts for food. You've also done quite a bit of scouting and have an idea of his core area, some travel corridors and possible bedding areas. Try to narrow that down and see if you can pattern him with your cameras.

Think about what the deer will eat throughout the hunting season (I'm assuming you're a bowhunter and can hunt for an extended time). When the browse and nuts are gone (or at least dwindling) later in the season, where are his closest foodsources and can you hunt these areas or at least a travel route between his bed and the food? Corn, soybeans, wheat, oats, turnips - these could be good later season food sources. You mentioned cornfields - will there be standing corn for late season? If not you could think about some sort of food plot - you can still plant oats, wheat, turnips this year for late season. Just be careful since does like to bed along the outer edges of these plots and if that's too close to the bucks beading area, it could cause him to move to a new bed, which may make him unhuntable for you and take him out of his (and your) core area.

One other resource to consider is Jeff Sturgis - here's a link to his website that has many articles and videos...
Premier Whitetail Hunting, Herd, and Habitat Strategies | Whitetail Habitat Solutions
I've learned a lot by reading his books and watching his videos.

You're going to have a great time hunting this brute. Good luck to you. :cool:
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
440
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WV
First off, I’m gonna be honest, you keep intruding on his core area and you can kiss him good-bye. If you know where he beds that’s all you need to know. I saw someone else suggested watching Dan Infalt’s methods and you didn’t seem interested, but you really should dig into it a little if you truly want to kill him. You can intrude and find his exact bed but you need to make a plan while you’re in there, figure out the bed and predicted travel and get out. Don’t go back until it’s time to run an arrow in him. You need to account for the wind and thermals as well. I wouldn’t put a cam in close to his bed but one of the edge of a food source that you can easily check will be ok. If you get pics of him right at dark or a little after you should be able to figure out where he came from. A mature buck won’t move far in daylight and you need to be close to his bed to kill him. It takes some planning but it can be done! Just don’t keep going in there and busting him. As for the rubs, I have no clue. Seems odd to me!


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Joined
Sep 23, 2016
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931
^^^^^ this
Stay out of his home right now. Scout the edges. This time of year he's going to only be visible on food. If it's really hot he may be nocturnal. When you get cooler days/night closer to season he'll show himself in beans and alfalfa. If he's in velvet he shouldn't be making rubs yet. Do you have bears in your area? Might explain the peeled bark. I won't say it's impossible but extremely unlikely you'd see rubbing right now...

Stay out of the woods and let him do his thing for the next month. Catch him in the food morning/night and ease your way in once the season opens
 

rlmmarine

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Ormond beach
8 Hours Ago#7

flinginairos*

Senior MemberJoin DateWVPost Thanks / Like*

First off, I’m gonna be honest, you keep intruding on his core area and you can kiss him good-bye



stay out if you want to kill him, you said you already had him timed. Get you stand set up when the wind is right and maybe put a camera or two up but afte r that don't go back in until season. I keep minerals out all year but I don't go into my hunting areas for 4 months prior to hunting season. I stay out and don't give them a reason to move on
 
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Yep! Get yourself some trail cameras and setup on some of the well known trails you are scouting. Don't intrude on his core area. Warning. Trail cameras are very addicting and great fun.
 

Broomd

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Sep 29, 2014
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North Idaho
Some great advice here. We have an excellent big buck bedding area on our place and we N E V E R enter there during deer season...verboten.
The trick is to get into the transition area. You will kill him there going to and from his bed.
 
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norman1wv

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Wv
8 Hours Ago#7

flinginairos*

Senior MemberJoin DateWVPost Thanks / Like*

First off, I’m gonna be honest, you keep intruding on his core area and you can kiss him good-bye



stay out if you want to kill him, you said you already had him timed. Get you stand set up when the wind is right and maybe put a camera or two up but afte r that don't go back in until season. I keep minerals out all year but I don't go into my hunting areas for 4 months prior to hunting season. I stay out and don't give them a reason to move on


There is a pretty nice 8 pointer that I have timed, as for whatever is making these rubs I have yet to see.
 
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norman1wv

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Wv
I have thought about bear, as I have found tracks around the stream of a young black bear with paw prints around the size of my hand. I researched elk and hear that they make wallows instead of scrapes on the ground, and I haven't found evidence of that or elk tracks. Elk can also be pretty loud when they call and I haven't heard anything like that ever. The location that they introduced the elk to is less than 10 miles away so they could be in the area. If I had the cash handy I would definitely set up a trail cam. I feel I have found a prime location that has a very nice buck in it. I get very excited just thinking about the sign and location.
 
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dude you need to stay out of there, if you've been in there 2-3 times hes probably gone forever. I try and do my scouting in may and be in and out within one trip so hopefully they'll go back to theyre normal movement, if I need to make another trip to gather info ill do it in august to give it time to cool off and a couple months before I go back in and hunt it. you might want to take a closer look at infalts tactics.
 
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norman1wv

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Wv
Velvet already gone?? This early??:confused:

This was my main point. All the bucks that I see are still in velvet, but Im seeing many fresh rubs on trees. Could there be a mutant deer that is already making the rubs. Something is and Id love to lay eyes on it. Whatever it may be.
 
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norman1wv

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Wv
Rubs on trees. I see sap pouring out from the rubs. The inner wood is damp, and looks fresh. There are no beavers or porcupines in the area. I was thinking elk since they have been reintroduced in the area, but I don't know anything about their behavior. All the deer I see are still in velvet. I hear that older bucks will shed the velvet earlier than others, but this is way to early for deer to be making rubs like what I see. I know that deer don't only rub trees to remove velvet, as the velvet is lost in 2- 3 days when It decides to come off... Rubs are more like signposts I hear. Either I have some elk, I have a deer that is already shedding a month earlier than normal, or someone is in there with a hatchet making false rubs. (doubt that)... the path is slick with deer traffic. I see lots of places where they have been bedded down, although a few may have been turkey scratches. What ever is making those rubs tho... I have no idea. I have been trying to spot whatever it is, with no luck thus far.
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
1,071
First off, I’m gonna be honest, you keep intruding on his core area and you can kiss him good-bye. If you know where he beds that’s all you need to know. I saw someone else suggested watching Dan Infalt’s methods and you didn’t seem interested, but you really should dig into it a little if you truly want to kill him. You can intrude and find his exact bed but you need to make a plan while you’re in there, figure out the bed and predicted travel and get out. Don’t go back until it’s time to run an arrow in him. You need to account for the wind and thermals as well. I wouldn’t put a cam in close to his bed but one of the edge of a food source that you can easily check will be ok. If you get pics of him right at dark or a little after you should be able to figure out where he came from. A mature buck won’t move far in daylight and you need to be close to his bed to kill him. It takes some planning but it can be done! Just don’t keep going in there and busting him. As for the rubs, I have no clue. Seems odd to me!


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You wanna kill that deer you'll listen to this.
 
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