Ya i have yet to eat any grass fed beef, even the deer i eat are not totally grass fed. I just ment if you were going to it would get expensive. It's about eating clean. I do try to get seafood a couple times a week. I mix it up with chicken, pork,venison,fish & beef.
The Paleo Diet
- Thread starter Rod
- Start date
quarbles
FNG
the biggest point of arguement over grass fed beef is the fat quality. alot has to do with the ratio of omegas 3:6's. chances are gfb would be cleaner, although i'm certain that only pertains to smaller local ranches. i feel the main takaway is becoming gluten free and fat burning as opposed to carbohydrate burning.
ever read anything by eades? good stuff.....
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/saturated-fat/wheat-belly/
article has some interesting facts and theories concerning grains and also touches upon cholestorol fears i believe as does this one... http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/...ur-life-an-epilogue-to-the-cholesterol-story/
i particularly like the ending to that article.....
ever read anything by eades? good stuff.....
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/saturated-fat/wheat-belly/
article has some interesting facts and theories concerning grains and also touches upon cholestorol fears i believe as does this one... http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/...ur-life-an-epilogue-to-the-cholesterol-story/
i particularly like the ending to that article.....
littlebrotherC
The Atkins diet was around in the late 60's, then went away for 25 years as people figured out it doesn't work and is unsustainable. It came back in the 90's, as a whole new generation of overwieght people had sprung up and embraced the fad.
The 10 years I'm talking about starts when the diet peaks, not with the introduction of it. You will see the same with HCG soon, which by the way was around in the 60's, too. 15 years ago, "Eating for your blood type" was getting all the hype the Paleo diet is getting now, but has pretty much gone by the wayside as fads always do.
On your mention of cultural beliefs vs. fat, mine aren't on cultural beliefs, but on the mountian of evidence that too much fat, in the American diet, is causing heart disease.
Look at what Dr. Dean Ornish has done with reversing heart disease by reducing fat intake.
You all can promote the high fat diets based on a few books, but I'll stand by what the most and best evidence shows: fat intakes above 30% raise the risk of heart disease, the leading killer in America for men and women.
The Atkins diet was around in the late 60's, then went away for 25 years as people figured out it doesn't work and is unsustainable. It came back in the 90's, as a whole new generation of overwieght people had sprung up and embraced the fad.
The 10 years I'm talking about starts when the diet peaks, not with the introduction of it. You will see the same with HCG soon, which by the way was around in the 60's, too. 15 years ago, "Eating for your blood type" was getting all the hype the Paleo diet is getting now, but has pretty much gone by the wayside as fads always do.
On your mention of cultural beliefs vs. fat, mine aren't on cultural beliefs, but on the mountian of evidence that too much fat, in the American diet, is causing heart disease.
Look at what Dr. Dean Ornish has done with reversing heart disease by reducing fat intake.
You all can promote the high fat diets based on a few books, but I'll stand by what the most and best evidence shows: fat intakes above 30% raise the risk of heart disease, the leading killer in America for men and women.
trevore
Lil-Rokslider
It's really pretty simple. Stop eating processed junk and there you go. It's hard when we're surrounded by it. When you do your grocery shopping, stay out of the aisles in the middle of the store. Shop the perimeter and see what happens.
littlebrotherC
WKR
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2012
- Messages
- 332
Robby,
I'm curious on your thoughts on inflammation and how it relates heart disease and weight loss.
I'm curious on your thoughts on inflammation and how it relates heart disease and weight loss.
LittlebrotherC,
Without a lot of time to back up my answers with research (probably better to consider this opinion based on 20 years in the health & fitness field) From my understanding, inflammation is a symptom of heart disease. Losing weight, in any fashion, even by unhealthy means, reduces inflammation and risks associated with heart diesease. That is why any fad diet can boast numbers of decreased blood pressure, blood lipids, etc, because when people lose weight, these things improve. However, you don't have to be significantly overweight to have a heart attack (Davey Jones autopsy report just released- heart attack.) and we saw that in the 60's & 70's when heart disease was peaking in America yet less than half the population was overweight (it's about 80% now).
Summary, just because someone loses weight and we see these things improve doesn't mean we've found a long term solution especially if they can't stay on the restictive diet and if the diet they are on has long term risks like eating too much fat. Americans are overweight and that is the driving problem, too many calories in, too little out. We saw the calories expended in America really drop with the end of the industrial age and now we can make a living at a desk. People have to move more and eat better, and you won't convince me, based on the good data, that having them eat more fat will provide a long term solution, even if they improve over the short term, That is why I say show me the clinical data in 10 years.
Without a lot of time to back up my answers with research (probably better to consider this opinion based on 20 years in the health & fitness field) From my understanding, inflammation is a symptom of heart disease. Losing weight, in any fashion, even by unhealthy means, reduces inflammation and risks associated with heart diesease. That is why any fad diet can boast numbers of decreased blood pressure, blood lipids, etc, because when people lose weight, these things improve. However, you don't have to be significantly overweight to have a heart attack (Davey Jones autopsy report just released- heart attack.) and we saw that in the 60's & 70's when heart disease was peaking in America yet less than half the population was overweight (it's about 80% now).
Summary, just because someone loses weight and we see these things improve doesn't mean we've found a long term solution especially if they can't stay on the restictive diet and if the diet they are on has long term risks like eating too much fat. Americans are overweight and that is the driving problem, too many calories in, too little out. We saw the calories expended in America really drop with the end of the industrial age and now we can make a living at a desk. People have to move more and eat better, and you won't convince me, based on the good data, that having them eat more fat will provide a long term solution, even if they improve over the short term, That is why I say show me the clinical data in 10 years.
mattstanton
WKR
can we agree that grains and processed foods are bad? Why can't a person adopt a paleo like diet which is healthy but modify it to eliminate the high fat intake. this does not change the idea that processed food of any kind like those made from flour and processed grains are not good for humans to eat. I think the paleo diet is great but like any other diet, it is not perfect and can be modified. stick to it but lower the fat intake? sounds good to me
mattstanton,
I completely agree that processed foods and processed grains are bad for humans- terrible in fact.
The problem is the processed grains (white flours of all grains, oat, barley, wheat, etc), not the grain in it's natural state before processing. When any grain is harvested, it contains 3 parts: the germ, the bran, and endosperm. In processing, the bran and the germ are removed. This was started in the 19th century because the bran/germ have a small amount of fat (healthy fat) and with no refridgeration, and the advent of the train allowing the food supply to be shipped hundreds of miles, that small amount of fat caused the flours to go rancid (the term shelf life became relevant). By removing the bran/germ, leaving only the endosperm allowed for a longer shelf life but at the trade off removing the good part of the grain and concentrating the calories of the endosperm.
Fast forward a 100 years and we now know that the bran and germ are where most of the fiber, vitamins, minerals, and phytochemicals are found, i.e. the stuff that is good for us. Whole grain consumption -not processsed grain- is associtated with lower body weights, less incidence of heart disease, lower/more stable blood sugar and many other conditions. Plus it tasts good and is easy to sustain a diet on.
In the last 10 years, whole grains have made a comeback and can be found in pastas, breads, cereals and are great for you. The average American gets 11-14 grams of fiber, but needs at least 25 for women and 38 for men (those are minimums, our ancestors of 100 years ago were eating 60+ grams per day.) Fiber is filling, associated with lower rates of disease. Unless the Paleo diet is promoting 10 or more cups of fruits/veggies per day, you probably are not getting enough fiber in the diet if whole grains (which are rich in fiber) are not present, which it sounds like they are not.
When I say that grains aren't the problem, I mean whole grains, not the processed grains.
We've helped thousands of people (literally) lose weight, and when I see someone eliminating whole grains, I predict they are going to gain the weight back and I'm usually right. They've set themselves up for failure from the beginning becasue they have eliminated one of the staples of the human diet for thousands of years: the whole grain.
I've witnessed hundreds of people try these style of diets, like the Paleo diet, and it's usually the same: they lose a lot of weight, grow tired of eating that way, then revert back to the old habits that caused the weight gain. It's been less than an hour since I met with a 45 year old nurse who's been on these fad diets for years and is losing the weight, only to gain it back. I just signed her up for our Ultimate Loser weight loss challenge. I let you know in 10 weeks how she did. But I can tell you this, the crazy fad diets have failed her miserably because they didn't teach her how to eat in the real world.
I'm just advocating a common sense approach that teaches sustainable behaviors and provides scientifically-proven healthy foods- and fat is not healthy in doses above about 30% of total calories.
To be clear, I've never read the Paleo diet, nor the 100's of other diet books on the market. I don't need to. I already know from the hundreds of clinical trials proving how humans should eat and only need to compare the characteristics of the latest diet to that standard to know if it's credible.
Visit nih.gov and search for Treatment of Overweight and Obesity. That tax-payer funded research project reviewed almost 400 clinical trials over 20 years and thousands of test subjects on characteristics of successful weight managemers. You won't find any of the fad diets showing up in the clinical trials as effective in maintaining weight loss. That is just one research project, there are many others showing the similiar results.
I completely agree that processed foods and processed grains are bad for humans- terrible in fact.
The problem is the processed grains (white flours of all grains, oat, barley, wheat, etc), not the grain in it's natural state before processing. When any grain is harvested, it contains 3 parts: the germ, the bran, and endosperm. In processing, the bran and the germ are removed. This was started in the 19th century because the bran/germ have a small amount of fat (healthy fat) and with no refridgeration, and the advent of the train allowing the food supply to be shipped hundreds of miles, that small amount of fat caused the flours to go rancid (the term shelf life became relevant). By removing the bran/germ, leaving only the endosperm allowed for a longer shelf life but at the trade off removing the good part of the grain and concentrating the calories of the endosperm.
Fast forward a 100 years and we now know that the bran and germ are where most of the fiber, vitamins, minerals, and phytochemicals are found, i.e. the stuff that is good for us. Whole grain consumption -not processsed grain- is associtated with lower body weights, less incidence of heart disease, lower/more stable blood sugar and many other conditions. Plus it tasts good and is easy to sustain a diet on.
In the last 10 years, whole grains have made a comeback and can be found in pastas, breads, cereals and are great for you. The average American gets 11-14 grams of fiber, but needs at least 25 for women and 38 for men (those are minimums, our ancestors of 100 years ago were eating 60+ grams per day.) Fiber is filling, associated with lower rates of disease. Unless the Paleo diet is promoting 10 or more cups of fruits/veggies per day, you probably are not getting enough fiber in the diet if whole grains (which are rich in fiber) are not present, which it sounds like they are not.
When I say that grains aren't the problem, I mean whole grains, not the processed grains.
We've helped thousands of people (literally) lose weight, and when I see someone eliminating whole grains, I predict they are going to gain the weight back and I'm usually right. They've set themselves up for failure from the beginning becasue they have eliminated one of the staples of the human diet for thousands of years: the whole grain.
I've witnessed hundreds of people try these style of diets, like the Paleo diet, and it's usually the same: they lose a lot of weight, grow tired of eating that way, then revert back to the old habits that caused the weight gain. It's been less than an hour since I met with a 45 year old nurse who's been on these fad diets for years and is losing the weight, only to gain it back. I just signed her up for our Ultimate Loser weight loss challenge. I let you know in 10 weeks how she did. But I can tell you this, the crazy fad diets have failed her miserably because they didn't teach her how to eat in the real world.
I'm just advocating a common sense approach that teaches sustainable behaviors and provides scientifically-proven healthy foods- and fat is not healthy in doses above about 30% of total calories.
To be clear, I've never read the Paleo diet, nor the 100's of other diet books on the market. I don't need to. I already know from the hundreds of clinical trials proving how humans should eat and only need to compare the characteristics of the latest diet to that standard to know if it's credible.
Visit nih.gov and search for Treatment of Overweight and Obesity. That tax-payer funded research project reviewed almost 400 clinical trials over 20 years and thousands of test subjects on characteristics of successful weight managemers. You won't find any of the fad diets showing up in the clinical trials as effective in maintaining weight loss. That is just one research project, there are many others showing the similiar results.
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you bet Lukem. My job is to just put out the facts (mixed with opinion of course
and let people decide what's best for them.
and let people decide what's best for them.littlebrotherC
WKR
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2012
- Messages
- 332
Robby,
It seams a bit curious that a person can "put out the facts" on a topic he hasn't read about. You don't understand the topic in which you're talking. You may understand conventional nutrition, but your comments on what you refer to as a "fad" are unjustified if you don't understand the topic. Paleo is not about losing weight. It's not about heart disease. It's not low carb. It's not high fat. It definitely isn't Atkins. It's about reducing systemic inflammation and all the spin off problems it creates. It's about controlling your hormone system through what you eat. This isn't inflammatory joint disease due to being overweight. It systemic inflammation.
If you want to reduce yourself to a fad education so you can accurately comment on a topic that all of your clients will eventually ask you about, these are the books I recommend.
The Paleo Solution- Robb Wolf
The Paleo Diet- Lorin Cordain
The Primal Blueprint- Mark Sisson
This information is changing lives. Parkinson's, M-S, Fibromyalgea, Rheamatoid Arthritis, and infertility to name a few. Yes there are people that are losing weight as well, but it's just a side effect of reduced inflammation. The people I counsel, none of them care about how they look in a bikini. They want there lives back. They want to quit having seizures. They want to once again be a part of their children's lives. They want to not have depression. They want their body to function the way it was designed.
No random controlled double blind study can take away what I've seen on the lab results and the lives attached to them. That's not say there isn't science to back this stuff. But at the end of the day, the people I work with get their life back or they don't.
It seams a bit curious that a person can "put out the facts" on a topic he hasn't read about. You don't understand the topic in which you're talking. You may understand conventional nutrition, but your comments on what you refer to as a "fad" are unjustified if you don't understand the topic. Paleo is not about losing weight. It's not about heart disease. It's not low carb. It's not high fat. It definitely isn't Atkins. It's about reducing systemic inflammation and all the spin off problems it creates. It's about controlling your hormone system through what you eat. This isn't inflammatory joint disease due to being overweight. It systemic inflammation.
If you want to reduce yourself to a fad education so you can accurately comment on a topic that all of your clients will eventually ask you about, these are the books I recommend.
The Paleo Solution- Robb Wolf
The Paleo Diet- Lorin Cordain
The Primal Blueprint- Mark Sisson
This information is changing lives. Parkinson's, M-S, Fibromyalgea, Rheamatoid Arthritis, and infertility to name a few. Yes there are people that are losing weight as well, but it's just a side effect of reduced inflammation. The people I counsel, none of them care about how they look in a bikini. They want there lives back. They want to quit having seizures. They want to once again be a part of their children's lives. They want to not have depression. They want their body to function the way it was designed.
No random controlled double blind study can take away what I've seen on the lab results and the lives attached to them. That's not say there isn't science to back this stuff. But at the end of the day, the people I work with get their life back or they don't.
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quarbles
FNG
green eggs and ham......
ultimately, people will try it or not. those that do will quickly see the benefits in how they feel and the quality of THEIR life (regardless of 'clinical studies' although with very minimal research one could discover a WEALTH of information on said topic), and given a very small amount of time will realize how easy of a dietary choice it is to sustain. those that don't can validate problems with inflammation, autoimmunity diabetes, heart disease, lethargy, depression, obesity, ect however they like. freedom of choice, right? me, i'd rather not deal with it.
yes it is a diet. but in the sense of a noun, not a verb... i think people forget what diet actually means. look it up. it is good to learn new things.
it is futile to debate with someone whom refuses to give things a chance, it just becomes a pointless argument and a poor investment of time and energy. i'd rather have a conversation with somebody open minded and willing to change and evolve, reevaluate their beliefs or at least give things a try before discrediting them.
if you're curious about this particular "fad diet" give it a try, educate yourself a little (or a lot), and see how you feel. get some blood work done, do whatever. you tell me.
ultimately, people will try it or not. those that do will quickly see the benefits in how they feel and the quality of THEIR life (regardless of 'clinical studies' although with very minimal research one could discover a WEALTH of information on said topic), and given a very small amount of time will realize how easy of a dietary choice it is to sustain. those that don't can validate problems with inflammation, autoimmunity diabetes, heart disease, lethargy, depression, obesity, ect however they like. freedom of choice, right? me, i'd rather not deal with it.
yes it is a diet. but in the sense of a noun, not a verb... i think people forget what diet actually means. look it up. it is good to learn new things.
it is futile to debate with someone whom refuses to give things a chance, it just becomes a pointless argument and a poor investment of time and energy. i'd rather have a conversation with somebody open minded and willing to change and evolve, reevaluate their beliefs or at least give things a try before discrediting them.
if you're curious about this particular "fad diet" give it a try, educate yourself a little (or a lot), and see how you feel. get some blood work done, do whatever. you tell me.
If you read some of the original posts, they were inquiring about weight loss (with 80% of the country overweight- not surprising), so I answered them.
Littlebrotherc, have you read every diet book on the market (there are thousands) to know for sure what you're advocating is true?
We have same results with blood work, reduced inflammation, blood pressure and all else you mention simply by following sensible guidelines people can sustain. Just meet a client Friday who is down 50 pounds and off all blood pressure meds. Ironically, he was in line at Rumbi (low fat options), buying lunch when I spoke with him.
Most people won't sustain the Paleo diet, although some will. I want to help the most people possible, not just the few purists who can follow the restrictive diets layed out in this thread.
My experience is about 5% of people can sustain the restrictive diets, but 50% or more can make the changes I've laid out. The other % just aren't sick enough yet to care.
Littlebrotherc, have you read every diet book on the market (there are thousands) to know for sure what you're advocating is true?
We have same results with blood work, reduced inflammation, blood pressure and all else you mention simply by following sensible guidelines people can sustain. Just meet a client Friday who is down 50 pounds and off all blood pressure meds. Ironically, he was in line at Rumbi (low fat options), buying lunch when I spoke with him.
Most people won't sustain the Paleo diet, although some will. I want to help the most people possible, not just the few purists who can follow the restrictive diets layed out in this thread.
My experience is about 5% of people can sustain the restrictive diets, but 50% or more can make the changes I've laid out. The other % just aren't sick enough yet to care.
WV Hunter
Lil-Rokslider
Robby and lilbroc, just curious, with the words clients thrown around, what is your position or expertise as it pertains to the discussion?
Thanks, WV Hunter
Thanks, WV Hunter
WV hunter, great question.
I'm currently a director of a large personal training and pilates program in Idaho. Our club sees 1500 member visits per day and we have about 500 people per month involved in our personal training program. I oversee 24 fitness & weight loss professionals who posses either 4 or 6 year Bachelors/Masters degrees and have an average of 4 years experience (some over 20).
Me personally, I am a certified trainer by the American College of Sports Medicine and the American Council on Exercise. I've been at my job for 21 years. We've served thousands of succesful clients in that time.
For weight management, I did most of my training under a Certfied Nutritionist and Registered Dietician, Doreen Robinson, who directed the largest hospital based weight management program in country for a few years, before branching off on her own. She works with some of the leading researchers in the country on weight management and we coverse weekly.
Thanks for asking.
I'm currently a director of a large personal training and pilates program in Idaho. Our club sees 1500 member visits per day and we have about 500 people per month involved in our personal training program. I oversee 24 fitness & weight loss professionals who posses either 4 or 6 year Bachelors/Masters degrees and have an average of 4 years experience (some over 20).
Me personally, I am a certified trainer by the American College of Sports Medicine and the American Council on Exercise. I've been at my job for 21 years. We've served thousands of succesful clients in that time.
For weight management, I did most of my training under a Certfied Nutritionist and Registered Dietician, Doreen Robinson, who directed the largest hospital based weight management program in country for a few years, before branching off on her own. She works with some of the leading researchers in the country on weight management and we coverse weekly.
Thanks for asking.
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Sure Paleo can do the above....so does eating CLEAN. And truth be told carbs do NOT make you fat. An excess of carbs MAY make you fat, as would an excess of Protein, or Fats.
I'm 5'11" 173# and 11%BF I have zero problem sitting down and eating 2000 calories also. Its not about how much you can or can't eat, its about eating the right foods at the right time. Everyone needs to find what works for them that they can sustain for a LIFETIME. I can eat clean for the rest of my life. Can you follow a strict "diet" that is hard to maintain, expensive to buy, or use anywhere?
I haven't been on much in the last week so it took a while to read this whole thread. I agree STRONGLY with everything Robby has put out here.
I'll recommend two readings for anyone who wants to lose body fat, gain LBM, reduce blood pressure, and a host of other things.
1) The Eat Clean Diet-Tosca Reno
2) Body for Life-Bill Phillips
Just a disclaimer the Eat Clean Diet is not a "diet", this is the one flaw with the book. Tosca emphasizes that this is for a lifetime. Both of these are lifestyle changes.
In this thread I have read multiple places about fast weight loss, reduced blood pressure, reduced cholesterol, gotten rid of their diabetes, etc. Well hate to burst ya'lls bubble but I have clients who are doing the same things daily just by eating clean and exercising. Anyone who is armed with some very BASIC knowledge that Robby or I would gladly help with, can do what I have listed. I have seen the results first hand, have seen years of testing, and have watched clients keep the lifestyle change for good. I have not found one single person who has transformed and can follow their "diet" for life. Not saying they aren't out there.....but I am saying with 100% certainity they are a lot fewer and a lot farther in between.
I personally wold not allow myself, my trainers, or any of my clients to follow a "diet". I am 100% about achieving the maximum results in the easiest way. Eat Clean as a whole for life, learn portion control, and some basic nutrient timing and you will succeed....Guaranteed!
Robby great posts, you and I are spot on in agreement.
I'll recommend two readings for anyone who wants to lose body fat, gain LBM, reduce blood pressure, and a host of other things.
1) The Eat Clean Diet-Tosca Reno
2) Body for Life-Bill Phillips
Just a disclaimer the Eat Clean Diet is not a "diet", this is the one flaw with the book. Tosca emphasizes that this is for a lifetime. Both of these are lifestyle changes.
In this thread I have read multiple places about fast weight loss, reduced blood pressure, reduced cholesterol, gotten rid of their diabetes, etc. Well hate to burst ya'lls bubble but I have clients who are doing the same things daily just by eating clean and exercising. Anyone who is armed with some very BASIC knowledge that Robby or I would gladly help with, can do what I have listed. I have seen the results first hand, have seen years of testing, and have watched clients keep the lifestyle change for good. I have not found one single person who has transformed and can follow their "diet" for life. Not saying they aren't out there.....but I am saying with 100% certainity they are a lot fewer and a lot farther in between.
I personally wold not allow myself, my trainers, or any of my clients to follow a "diet". I am 100% about achieving the maximum results in the easiest way. Eat Clean as a whole for life, learn portion control, and some basic nutrient timing and you will succeed....Guaranteed!
Robby great posts, you and I are spot on in agreement.
mattstanton
WKR
I have been eating what I am calling a paleo style diet for 2 weeks now. I eliminates all bread and pasta and includes more protien, fruit and vegetables than I used to eat. I am still getting some dairy in the form of milk and lowfat yogurt but not as much as I used to. I am down 12 lbs in 2 weeks and I feel great! I am not hungry because the amount of food I eat has not changed. The quality of food I eat has improved greatly though. I agree with robby as well as LBC because I think both styles of diet work but I decided to combine the best aspects of the two.
As stated you are also eating more Protein which will satiate you longer.
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