Seek Outside Tent + Stove = Cold?

[Wally3o3]

Hi all, I am new to the forum and seeking some help with my setup. I just got back from a second rifle season elk hunt near Walden, CO. We setup camp at about 9,400ft elevation and I was pumped to try my new setup. I am running Seek Outside's Cimarron tipi with a WWW large wood burning stove. Other items in setup: half nest for the tent, Klymit 6 R-value insulated sleeping pad, and a Marmot zero degree down mummy bag.

Tent and other items setup like a breeze. I was done well before the rest of the crew could setup their massive canvas wall tent, so I offered to help them out... Got my tent warmed up around 9pm and turned in for the evening burning the biggest log I could fit into the stove. Woke up at about 2am chilled to the bone with frost everywhere. Stoking the stove didn't seem to help much and I retreated to the truck by about 3am... Ended up being a rough night and I quickly joined the rest of my hunting group in the canvas wall tent for the rest of the hunt. The temps got down to single digits over night and I had the tent staked down to the ground to prevent wind drifts. I thought I had all the gear to be comfortable at that elevation and cannot figure out where I went wrong...

Can anyone with these tents tell me where I went wrong? I got this setup so I could hike into backcountry and have the stove to dry out gear, cook, etc. Glad I tried it this trip with the fail safe of a canvas wall tent because I feel like I failed miserably. Any advice is much appreciated. Cheers!

 

[gabenzeke]

They don't burn long. Youve got to keep them fed to stay warm.

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[RyanT26]

On paper your set up sounds pretty good.

Did you get too hot right away when you went to bed and sweat up your bag?

 

[Dos Perros]

Your sleep system needs to be rated for the low temps and not considering the stove, because, as mentioned, the stove will peter out.

Alternatively, you could be dedicated to throwing logs in every couple hours, but that seems risky: what if you can't get a fire started, do you freeze?

If'n it were me, I'd use a propane stove car camping (like a NuWay), and then something like a Seek box stove or Lite Outdoors or something like that for backcountry. And know how to use them.

 

[bsnedeker]

Those stoves are designed to warm you up and dry your gear, they are not designed to keep you warm all night unless you want to wake up every 2-3 hours to stock it. I think you just need a better sleeping bag...what is the temp rating of the bag?

 

[Poser]

As others mentioned, you won’t keep a titanium stove burning all night, so, if it’s cold, bundle up appropriate when it’s time to go to sleep. If you fall asleep with your bag unzipped, you’ll wake up cold.

 

[Wally3o3]

I have a 0 degree mummy bad plus an R-6 rated sleeping pad. I didn't sweat the bag out or anything and figured the stove would burn out after a couple of hours. I could feel the ground sucking the warmth out if that makes sense so maybe the sleeping pad didn't do it's job....

 

[Hectocotylus]

I have a 0 degree mummy bad plus an R-6 rated sleeping pad. I didn't sweat the bag out or anything and figured the stove would burn out after a couple of hours. I could feel the ground sucking the warmth out if that makes sense so maybe the sleeping pad didn't do it's job....

Sounds like it’s a pad problem not a tent problem. Check the klymit R value vs the ASTM R value… I had a static v insulated that klymit said was 4.4 but astm said 1.7. I don’t trust klymits numbers.


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[mt100gr.]

I'd start with your sleeping pad. I have slept warm in single digits without a stove with my puffy gear supplementing my 20* quilt. Even took that combo down to exactly 0* once in a back yard test with my Thermarest Xtherm pad.

 

[Wally3o3]

Your sleep system needs to be rated for the low temps and not considering the stove, because, as mentioned, the stove will peter out.

Alternatively, you could be dedicated to throwing logs in every couple hours, but that seems risky: what if you can't get a fire started, do you freeze?

If'n it were me, I'd use a propane stove car camping (like a NuWay), and then something like a Seek box stove or Lite Outdoors or something like that for backcountry. And know how to use them.

I'm going to look into the NuWay for car camping. Seems like a nice option for a steady warmth.

 

[Dos Perros]

I'm going to look into the NuWay for car camping. Seems like a nice option for a steady warmth.

Would you post a review? If I had the scrilla I'd buy one today.

 

[mmac]

You could just throw in a cheap foam thermarest pad to add insulations or use your set up on a cot to get off the ground.

 

[GreenNDark Timber]

You could always put a rigid foam pad like a Thermarest Z Lite under your pad to bump up the R value. Wearing a beanie while you sleep helps a lot too. If you're still cold, wear your insulated underwear. I've slept in my Cimarron using an Xped Downmat UL Winter pad and 15deg Marmot down bag in temps down in the low teens and not had issues as long as I wore the beanie and long underwear.

 

[Wally3o3]

Sounds like it’s a pad problem not a tent problem. Check the klymit R value vs the ASTM R value… I had a static v insulated that klymit said was 4.4 but astm said 1.7. I don’t trust klymits numbers.


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Okay this makes more sense to me... Thanks for the heads up! It felt like I was sleeping on an ice cube. I'll look into Thermarest, or an equivalent pad, instead of going the blow-up route.

 

[Back Country Hunter 2]

I'd stay away from the NuWay stoves. I tested their biggest model at the time, 3 burner, along with multiple other brands last fall when CO had a bunch of fire bans. The NuWay barely kept it 15 degrees warmer than it was outside. I had one night where it was -20 out. Not fun.

Now, they probably aren't made to increase the temperature that much though. Just my experience.

 

[Moserkr]

Hmmm…. Got the stove rolling at 9 and fell asleep shortly after. Did that big log turn to ashes? It would only burn for maybe 2 hours with the stove turned down, but you would need a good, hot bed of coals first. So my first piece of advice is get your coals roaring hot before you turn in with that big log, then turn down the air and dampener.

Next, as stated above, sleeping pad. Add a foam layer (matty mcmat face) or get a warmer pad. Then check your sleeping bag rating - is 0* lower limit or comfort limit? Big difference.

Last, falling asleep for more than 2-3 hours, stove will be out. In the backcountry I carry a mini cigar torch (refillable), and always have the small to large wood ready to fire it up again.

For reference, I sleep on a R3 rated exped pad, with a reflective foam pad under it, with a 20* lower limit bag, with a 900 cu” stove in a large tipi. In a 0* blizzard that dumped a foot of snow overnight I was warm all night. We stoked the fire every 2-3 hours though. Tipi was probably 50* inside at the low points, and warm enough to wear a t-shirt when the stove was roaring. You got plenty of good advice in the thread, go try again, you’ll figure it out.

 

[Wally3o3]

I have a backpacking cot that I should have brought and then used the sleeping pad on top of it... That just adds pounds to the pack and I was trying to run as minimal as possible (simulate a hike-in weight). Bad choice in hindsight... Either way sounds like folks are having better luck with the foam based sleeping pads vs air.

I appreciate the insight fellas. I was bummed after that first night failure!

 

[svivian]

Everyone sleeps different but something to consider on a marmot sleeping bag since I used to sell sleeping bags. The temperature rating of o degrees is not a comfort rating its a survival rating, so that bag realistically is good to be comfortable to about 10 or 15 degrees. Then to add to that if you are a cold sleeper then it might be only good to 20 or 25 degrees.

 

[The_Jim]

I have learned to put the stove out before I go to sleep so I am hot and my bag is zipped up already. If you go to sleep with the stove running you tend to not have the bag zipped up tight and by the time you wake up it’s too late - your chilled. Hard to warm back up once you get cold in the middle of the night.

Klymit pad is not the best as far as insulation goes.

I have had good luck the sea to summit reactor sleeping bag liner to get some extra degrees out of my bag.

I also like to sleep in my puffy. Makes a big difference.

 

[mtblackdog]

Most has been said. But I burn a candle lantern or two all night. To cut down on condensation and take a little bit of the edge off the cold. Then roll out and start the stove to dry and heat up in the morning.