Rethinking best shot selection/placement for moose

[AkMtnRunner]

I've been rethinking the ideal moose shot selection since this year's successful moose hunt. I'd like to hear some thoughts from folks who've taken a few.

Here's the story of mine and why I don't think it was ideal, or maybe some other factor. Long story short, we got into a pretty good shooting spot, an open side hill to sit on and a monopod to rest the rifle. I had adjusted the position for the rest and rifle just right, then the bull presented itself broadside at 180 yards. Thinking to give myself the biggest target (based on this), I set the aim for the bullet to hit in the center of the lungs. I calmed myself as well as I could and squeezed the trigger slowly. The shot went off, and the bull immediately ran. At first, I feared the shot missed a vital area as it ran a good 100 yards, until it progressively slowing down and stopped, then we could hear it breathing laboriously and I knew we got it in the lungs. That was the great moment we knew we had a moose. It was a wonderful and relieving feeling. But the moose was still on its feet and it wondered another 20-30 yards until it finally dropped. During his run/walk, we didn't have a good opportunity to take another shot as it was in leafy alders and we could only see his antlers. We could see it finally fell and we marked his location by some taller trees and made our way cautiously to a high point about 50 yards from it to possibly see it better, but had to come up 10 yards from it to finally see it well. And sure enough, it found the wettest place to die. It was last standing in an aldery, 1 foot deep mud pit, and it's body barely fell over up out of it. It sensed us and was trying to get back up. I fired again, aiming directly for the heart/lower frontal lung area. Another 1-2 minutes and it was still breathing so I put another into the same area. Finally, it expired a few seconds after the third shot; about 5-10 minutes after the first. All of these shots were 300 grain .375 caliber Swift A-Frames leaving the muzzle at around 2600 fps.

The first shot did hit close to the center of the lungs but was a narrow wound channel, breaking a rib and making only a 1" exit. The 2nd and 3rd shots (not sure which was which) definitely made wider wound channels in the front of the lungs and busted up some off-side shoulder where they stopped. Those two had picture perfect mushrooms with >90% weight retention. The thought did occur to me to aim for the head or neck for the 2nd/3rd shots, but we were interested at the time to have it mounted, and I didn't want to risk missing the CNS inside it's massive neck.

To say it plainly, I'm disappointed with how much time and how many shots it took. I do understand it can take some time before a moose knows it's dead, but I am thinking this process took quite a bit more than usual and especially considering the substantial bullet that was used.

Here are some of my thoughts/questions:
-Judging by this bull's, and a rival bull's activity, it was really high on testosterone. We had a very exciting experience that morning when we got caught between the two (but that's another subject). Perhaps that kept it going so long?
-If this is actually not far from a typical process or close to ideal shot placement, I may as well just bring an ultralight 308 next time instead of hauling around my heavy 375.
-Maybe I should have used a less tough bullet for a lung shot, one that would fragment much more and make a wider wound channel through the lungs and ribs?
-Maybe I should have aimed for a shoulder/lung or shoulder/lung/heart placement with the same type of bullet, or with a less tough bullet?

I'd like to hear some experienced opinions. Thanks.

 

[PathFinder]

Shooting a bullet like that, such a result should be no surprise. The permanent wound channel would be quite small. The advantage of a round like that is the ability to break large bones and keep on trucking. Shooting for the shoulder to break it down is the way to go with that caliber and bullet. Personally I like to shoot rapid fragmenting, heavy for caliber bullets (Berger, Hornady ELD, etc) for heart/lung shots. The damage to the soft tissue of the lungs and heart is absolutely catastrophic. Rather than a long, narrow, rather field point like wound channel, you get a massive swath of shrapnel shredded tissue and far more tissue displacement along the path of the bullet.

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[Yellowknife]

IMO, you are overthinking this.

I've conservatively seen at least 20 moose die and helped recover at least that many more. Not to mention hearing countless moose stories over the years. I've personally used calibers from .308 to .375 H&H myself. With ANY caliber, a 100 yd run is pretty normal if they are ramped up. It just takes a while for them to loose blood pressure with a lung shot no matter what I've shot them with. A faster expanding more frangible bullet may have fractionally sped the process, but you may have sacrificed penetration, which is handy on raking shots and likely a poor trade off. One of my bulls with the .375 I used a 300 gr SGK, which is about as soft as it gets, and he just looked confused until I shot him again!

From my experience though, I still think a solid lung hit is the way to go. I've tried neck shots and shoulder shots with mixed success. Even this year I put my first shot square into the thickest part of the shoulder blade with a .338 WM and a Barnes in a bid to drop a bull where he stood. The bullet busted the bone and lodged in the top of the spine. Bull didn't even flinch! The big guy put the peddle down and took off through the timber at full speed. He didn't flinch for the second shot either which caught the liver, both lungs, and lodged in front of the shoulder. Luckily, after 50 yds or so, he hit a spruce tree and then the dirt. Still took a couple minutes to expire.

A few years ago I had one run a several hundred yards on two broken shoulder blades, a broken shoulder joint, and several holes through the neck. I've also seen them die instantly a couple times, but that's certainly the exception overall. With a center double lung shot though, you know they may run a ways, but they are never going to make it far. And if they aren't already excited, it's usually within sight.

So to sum up that long post.... It happens sometimes. I wouldn't worry about it. Keep shooting for the fat part of the lungs and no need to try anything fancy.

Yk

 

[Yellowknife]

As a side note. The diagram of moose anatomy you linked isn't particularly accurate. The spine isn't nearly that straight, and actually drops down significantly toward the front of a moose. If you look a the inside of the rib cage, you can see how tapered toward the front the body cavity is. The shoulder blade is almost 100% above the lungs, and a shoulder blade shot will almost always get the spine (if you are lucky) or the very large and very non vital hump if you aren't.

We typically quarter moose by splitting the down the spine, so I've seen quite a few in cross section. If holding on the shoulder, it's important to hold low enough to catch vitals.... Unlike me this year. .


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[VernAK]

You did just fine!. That is a big animal and they take a while to bleed out. If your bullet had gone low, the arteries or heart would have been severed while a higher bullet usually tags the spine causing them to collapse but often not lethal. But there is an area above lungs and below spine where you can have a non-lethal pass through....even with a rifle.

Of the many moose I've taken, about half were taken with the 375 while others were taken with everything on down to 270s [several moose] and I don't see a great difference in reaction to lung shots from various cartridges. I cut back a 270 rem 700 for my partners daughter and she took a 60" bull quartering on with 130 NPs this year....one shot. He jumped and wandered a few yards before he fell.

After shooting a moose/bear, and they try to run straight away, don't pass up a pelvic shot as they will often put the critter on the ground...perhaps you ruined some steak but the critter is under control in your chosen area.

I wouldn't suggest fragmenting bullets on animals as large as moose.....no way! Penetration is needed.

A few years ago, my buddy shot a very large bull with cup-core bullets in the lung area and it just stood there. Another shot had no effect so he asked me to kill him. At 80 yards, I shot him in the neck with a 300 WSM and 180 TSX expecting him to fold up....he grunted and stood his ground....so I shot him again in the neck and he grunted again.....several seconds later his lung wounds bled him out and he collapsed. When grinding the neck meat I found both TSX bullets perfectly opened and neither had hit the spine nor exited. The neck on a large bull is a hell of a tough chunk of muscle.

 

[tater]

Double lung is the way to go. I have seen moose hit with everything from .243 to .375 H&H, and they can absorb a lot of impact. Face it: those massive necks carry a lot of weight and are designed to withstand the force of collisions with other bulls in rut.

Avoid the neck shot (unless it is a follow-up/last resort). I have had to track and finish moose on two occasions hit by others that have shot them in the neck and had them boogie off. One of those bulls that i followed up on still went 40 yards after i punched a .308 165gr. TSX through his right shoulder and had it transect his chest. The other dropped like a rock when a .308 165gr. Hornady interlock grenaded inside him at 210 yards. That one dropped him on the spot, but i still had to put a finisher in him.

The one that surprised me the most was having my dad hit a good bull with a 210gr. .338 Barnes four times through the lungs broadside before it stopped.

The most spectacular was a bull i shot quartereing towards at about 50 yards with a .338WM and a 225gr mono bullet. The bull literally tipped over backwards, but still got up and ran for four steps. If keeping them out of water is the goal, break the shoulders (but this wastes a lot of meat).

 

[AkMtnRunner]

Thanks for the responses . . .

Pathfinder, I think you're right about that bullet. I came across those in a steal of deal so I couldn't resist and loaded them up. I think I'll use a partition next time since part of it will fragment well but still have enough penetration to go deep on less than ideal angles.

Yellowknife, VernAK, and Tater: It's great to hear from your experiences and your consistency about not much difference among calibers, and preference for lung shots says a lot. Where there's consistency, there is truth. I'll keep aiming for the lungs. Now, that ultralightweight 308 with a tiny 2.5x fixed scope loaded with 180 partitions looks very tempting to take next year!

Thanks everyone so far and keep the posts coming if you have more to share.

 

[AKHUNTER]

You did good - keep aiming at the lungs if the opportunity presents itself. I see no good reason to aim for the shoulder unless that's the only shot that you have. I've had them run 25-100 yards when double lunged. I shot my first moose in the neck at about 60 yards. I had a totally solid rest and figured I'd drop him in his tracks which I did. I hear you on the desire to put them down fast to limit the suffering and avoid them falling in precarious locations. I'd still go for the broadside double lung shot every time. Under the right scenario, follow up shots might be taken in the neck to anchor them and end it quickly. With that said, the neck is rather large so you better know where that spine is located.

 

[907to406]

I don't carry a lot of weight in this conversation since I just took my first moose last Saturday but have been on numerous moose hunts back in Alaska as a pack mule and seen a few taken. They are a big tough animal plain and simple. I double lunged my moose 3 times from 175yards (270WSM Nosler 140gr Accubonds with a MV:3100) within about 10 yards and 8 seconds before he piled up. After the first shot he kicked like a whitetail but continued walking at his normal pace, second shot just kept walking, third shot tipped him over. I was lucky he died where he did which was on a gravel bar vs making it to the alders or river. I knew he was dead after the first shot but wanted to anchor him and keep him from dying in a crappy area.

After the shooting stopped I wondered what my 300 RUM would have done to him with my handloaded 200gr Sierra GameKings but from the sound of it, it probably wouldn't have changed the outcome much. Had I of been using my 300 RUM I probably would have been more apt to put my shot into front shoulders... Upon gutting, skinning and capping my moose I found the lungs absolutely demolished and 2 bullets passed through and 1 lodged in the hide on the opposite side.

Case in point, any animal is going to die when shot in the lungs. Moose are a massive animal and it could take time for them to bleed out but at least they are guaranteed to expire with a lung shot. I never could get behind the idea of using a berger or other bullet designed to dissipate all its energy upon entry on big heavy game. I will take heavy hitting, deep penetrating, weight retention and expanding bullet all day. Sounds like you did the right thing.