Really good listen

[Zac]

 

[Bump79]

I'm looking forward to listening to it. I was just chatting with AAE the other day. For guys shooting short distances like whitetail it got me thinking with the new AirRzr material it got me thinking - length of vane really isn't that important as cross winds aren't as important. They said the new Talon 3.0 vane is half the decibals as a Max Hunter but with more steering. It's designed as a crossbow vane - but I don't see why it wouldn't be a great whitetail vane.

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[Kularrow]

Bill is an interesting guy. He made a comment that he basically insinuated mechanicals hide tuning flaws or mask out of tune bows. After listening to this it really makes sense why the industry standard are blazer vanes and mechanicals. The two best items to hide an out of tune bow. I’m curious if he’d ever make a mechanical given his beliefs, makes sense he wouldn’t.

 

[5MilesBack]

Bill is an interesting guy. He made a comment that he basically insinuated mechanicals hide tuning flaws or mask out of tune bows.

If you BH tune with fixed blades first, it's a non-issue.

 

[Kularrow]

What I believe he’s trying to say is guys willingly choose to use mechanicals to avoid BH tune or if you buy a tuned bow new over time the tune will fall out hence why mechanicals are popular.

 

[Zac]

Bill is an interesting guy. He made a comment that he basically insinuated mechanicals hide tuning flaws or mask out of tune bows. After listening to this it really makes sense why the industry standard are blazer vanes and mechanicals. The two best items to hide an out of tune bow. I’m curious if he’d ever make a mechanical given his beliefs, makes sense he wouldn’t.

I think he’s contemplated it plenty. He always says that it would sell great. His engineering mind just has to be able to come up with design that he sees as trustworthy. He already tried to satisfy that side of the market with the wide model.

 

[Bump79]

If you BH tune with fixed blades first, it's a non-issue.

100% - if you can't screw on a decent fixed blade and group reasonable well at normal hunting distances then you're not tuned and won't get the performance out of the mechanical you would overwise.

 

[Beendare]

mechanicals hide tuning flaws or mask out of tune bows.

Yep

A lot of mechh head shooters won’t admit that the reason they shoot those heads is because they cannot tune or want to avoid the process

 

[realunlucky]

I guess I don't understand the argument.

If a set up of blazers and sevr heads accurately puts you on target within the range you want to shoot what's the downsize?

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[Billy Goat]

I guess I don't understand the argument.

If a set up of blazers and sevr heads accurately puts you on target within the range you want to shoot what's the downsize?

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The downsize can be arrow flight.

Not saying that's what is happening all the time, but there's a whole lot of mechanical heads flying out of bows with arrows corkscrewing, fish tailing, or porpoising towards the target, part of the way, or all the way. The fletching is working to correct the flight and bring the back of the shaft behind the point, but it's sucking energy out of the arrow while doing it. Then, there's also the fact that your arrow could impact an animal at close range with the back of the shaft off axis, which will really kill penetration.


Mechanicals aren't bad, but they shouldn't be a solution. I mainly shoot mech heads, but I check tune with big heads and small vibes. I just like a really big cutting diameter, if I'm passing through anyway, I want as much damage as possible.


I have helped guys tune that end up picking up close to 10 yards by 70 yards. After the tuning, moving the housing with fixed pins so the top pin is on again, by the bottom pin they have almost picked up 10 yards. Straighter arrow flight out of the bow means more retained velocity down range.

 

[5MilesBack]

What I believe he’s trying to say is guys willingly choose to use mechanicals to avoid BH tune or if you buy a tuned bow new over time the tune will fall out hence why mechanicals are popular.

You know......it's funny. My mechanicals tend to follow my fixed heads in tune or out of tune. So if my fixed heads are hitting with FP's, so are my mechanicals. And if my fixed heads are off, so are my mechanicals........as are my bare shafts. I've never found a mechanical that flies like a FP. If you think you have, try shooting it as a bare shaft along with a bare shaft FP.

 

[Zac]

I’ve used mechs just because it was easy to practice with them. Both Sevr, and Thorn have that option. However I have regretted doing so on multiple occasions.

 

[Kularrow]

I’ve used mechs just because it was easy to practice with them. Both Sevr, and Thorn have that option. However I have regretted doing so on multiple occasions.

Theoretically if you had an arrow that was fast/light and had trouble Fixed Tuning. How would you solve that issue? And would you use Mechanicals in that circumstance? Here in Pennsylvania very light arrows with mechanicals are super common. I’m sure a lot of guys are under spines and out of tune in most circumstances because their equipment is centered around a Treestand shot that is 40 and in. I am curious though because Mathews lead engineer Mark Hayes stated in a podcast his arrow was 385 grains, I’m curious how a fixed head could tune going 315fps +.

 

[Zac]

Theoretically if you had an arrow that was fast/light and had trouble Fixed Tuning. How would you solve that issue? And would you use Mechanicals in that circumstance? Here in Pennsylvania very light arrows with mechanicals are super common. I’m sure a lot of guys are under spines and out of tune in most circumstances because their equipment is centered around a Treestand shot that is 40 and in. I am curious though because Mathews lead engineer Mark Hayes stated in a podcast his arrow was 385 grains, I’m curious how a fixed head could tune going 315fps +.

In the past I have solved that problem with a mechanical. Also had horrible results on mule deer. Good results on antelope however. It is possible to tune a fixed blade at any speed. However it becomes a very critical setup at that point. Definitely not the setup you want when your crapping your pants. So yeah if tune isn't perfect, and the archer doesn't want, or is unable to fix that then I think the mechanical is the best option. Better to hit the target than plane off into something.

 

[5MilesBack]

I’m curious how a fixed head could tune going 315fps +.

I have some arrows that are 390gr and over 315fps, and haven't had any problems getting them tuned with fixed heads. You just need to make sure you have enough vane on the back to overcome the blades on the front. In fact, those are the only arrows that I've ever tuned at 100 yards. They're fun to shoot.

 

[Kularrow]

I have some arrows that are 390gr and over 315fps, and haven't had any problems getting them tuned with fixed heads. You just need to make sure you have enough vane on the back to overcome the blades on the front. In fact, those are the only arrows that I've ever tuned at 100 yards. They're fun to shoot.

What vanes did you use? My current arrow is 390 grain Sonic 6.0 Match Grade going 312FPS.

 

[5MilesBack]

What vanes did you use?

For those arrows I've used my 2" Quikspin Speed Hunter vanes, 2.1" Q2i Fusion Xii's in a 4-fletch, and 3" Q2i Fusion Xii's in a 3-fletch. They all fly really well.

 

[Zac]

What vanes did you use? My current arrow is 390 grain Sonic 6.0 Match Grade going 312FPS.

What broadhead are you using?

 

[Kularrow]

What broadhead are you using?

Grim Reaper Whitetail Special. I’m interested in the IW W100s. Id really like to tune my bow for fixed and mechanicals.

 

[MattB]

I guess I don't understand the argument.

If a set up of blazers and sevr heads accurately puts you on target within the range you want to shoot what's the downsize?

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Penetration, which is diminished by poor arrow flight or broadheads with a large cutting diameter and/or inefficient blade angle. Combine those two and one can experience inadequate penetration. It’s a real thing.