Rational fear?

[coyoteman]

Hey guys, I'd like some insight for those of you who hunt in grizzly country. My dad and I went on our first elk hunt this last fall, a DIY, OTC archery hunt. To make a long story short the hunt was truly amazing! On the second to the last day I called a nice 6x6 to within 15 yds of my old man and he made a great shot, probably the most exciting and gratifying hunt I've been on even though I didn't even loose an arrow. Now to the reason for this post..loosing sleep while camping in grizzly country. During our hunt we were both armed with bear spray and I definitely felt safe with it as long as it was light out. What did spook me though was the thought of a sow grizzly wandering into our camp at night or wandering down wind of us while asleep then come charging into our camp thinking that she's defending her cubs. I don't really know anything about grizzlies other than the basic stuff that I've read so if some of you guys could fill me in with some real life experience and suggestions it would be much appreciated! I'd sure sleep easier in the back country this fall hopefully knowing that a bear is probably not going to try and jump on my tent while I'm in it.

Thanks

 

[ndbwhunter]

I'll give you the same advice that I got from a biologist in MT. Leave the .44 at the tent or truck, you'll be glad you had it if a bear tries to get in your tent at night. Bear spray doesn't work well when you are in the tent and the bear is on top of you flattening your tent. For everything else bear spray is the only way to go. Get the big can (UDAP or Counter Assault Brand), and know how and when to use it. It will keep you alive when a firearm won't. Chances are you won't have any bear problems or encounters but it is possible.

Here are a few resources that might help you.

http://www.centerforwildlifeinformation.org/BeBearAware/bebearaware.html
http://fwp.mt.gov/recreation/safety/wildlife/bears/default.html

 

[wyosteve]

I'll offer my .02. Generally a bear won't try to come into a tent unless they have a reason. The most prevalent reason is an interesting (to them) scent. That said, you need to remove anything that might have a food scent. This includes things like toothpaste, deodorant, shampoo, soap as well as obviously food. The tough part is knowing if something has scent or not. For example, if you wear your hunting pants while eating and spill/wipe some food item on them and then take them off and have them in the tent, it is a food scent. There is also the question of how much can they smell if the tent door is closed. I don't have a good answer to that. I can say in almost 30 yrs. of hunting in 'griz' country, we've never had one try to get in the tent if we took the above precautions. BUT, I can also relate an example of how good their nose is: about 15 yrs. ago, guiding archery elk hunters and around 3 a.m. I heard the dog barking. Didn't think much of it, but in the morning it was obvious a bear had been in camp. One of the other guides had left his coat hanging on a tree limb and inside one pocket was a sandwich in a plastic baggie (not Zip Loc style). The coat was drug about 100 yds. off and had the sandwich taken out of the pocket and devoured. Whether the bear smelled the sandwich or just found the coat interesting initially, only the bear knows, but my guess is he was able to smell it and investigated. For some reason he also chewed the plastic off the archery target in camp. I guess, the bottom line is take as many precautions to eliminate scent in or near your tent and you will be fine 99% of the time.

 

[airlocksniffer]

I know it's a concern to some folks who come out west to hunt but most of the fear is irrational. Bears and lions don't cruise the country looking for hunters to snack on. They pretty much want to be left alone. Of course there is the chance of an encounter but 99.9% of the time the animal wants to get away from you. That said, be prepared. Bear spray and/or firearm, keeping a clean camp, moving your elk quarters away from the gut pile and in a position that you can see from a distance, keeping your wits about you, etc. I spend a lot of time hunting in grizzly country and I've yet to see one. My buddy jumped a griz in the Bob last fall while bowhunting (I was a few hundred yards up the hillside). The bear checked him out for less than 5 seconds and proceeded to go on it's way. My buddies eyes were as big as dinner plates when I saw him a few minutes later but looking back he was pretty excited and happy he got to see one. Definitely adds to the wildness factor of an area. When camping in bear country, I often sleep under a tarp. Can't say I have trouble sleeping because it's really not worth the worry. Be prepared but don't let worry and fear negatively affect your time in the woods.

 

[realunlucky]

Bear fence or acetaminophen pm either can help you sleep

 

[Jason Snyder]

Bear fence or acetaminophen pm either can help you sleep

So does good whiskey


I have hunted in griz country for years. We have had one tense night, but that was completely our fault. If you are smart, take care of your food and any game parts you will likely be fine.

I've had many more terrifying experiences with lightning than I have long toed bears.

 

[mt100gr.]

All good advice so far. Clean camp, some form of bear deterring weapon, and a clear and aware head will keep you safe.

Last year we were camped at a small alpine lake and about an hour after pitch black dark 2 bears (not sure of variety) had a knock-down, drag out, national geographic footage-style brawl about 40 yards from camp. All we could do was listen until they finished. When it got quiet enough, we yelled at them a bit and flashed the lights and they disappeared into the night. PUCKER!!

I imagined their brawl rolling through camp and how interesting that would have been....it was all thwarted by human voices though. Our pistols were trained on the black brush behind camp but never needed. Unless it's a bona fide problem bear,they don't want to be around you. If these two hadn't gotten into it, though, they well could have ended up among us. Makes me wonder how close quiet bears have come over the years.

 

[Mike21]

Between 2010 and 2014, 5 of 10 fatal grizzly bear attacks occurred in the Yellowstone Eco system (Yellowstone np, gallatin nf, Shoshone nf, Bridget Teton nf). That compares to 2 in alaska and 3 in Canada during that time. 3 of 10 were hunters. So if you are huntin sw montana or nw Wyoming then maybe have rational fear.

Most of those bears who killed people were killed with guns, albeit after the fact. One bear shit out a video camera belonging to Grizzly Man. Ok I made that last part up.

 

[mtluckydan]

All good advice. I choose to carry a gun - not bear spray. If I have to make a split second decision to defend myself, I don't want two choices to think about. I know of at least one instance during hunting season in MT that someone sprayed a bear with bear spray and the bear came back and was shot with a firearm. I think the government, both state and federal, pushes the spray thing and many people have the false sense of security that they will be safe with spray. How many people want to wait until a grizzly bear is 12 feet away to spray it. I know I don't want a bear anywhere near that close to me. I test sprayed a can of spray two years ago and it was pitiful. I think the reported statistics are skewed toward bear spray because many people who shoot bears that are protected don't run back to civilization and report it. I had encounters with 6 grizzly bears last bow season. Those are the ones that myself or my hunting partner saw while we were elk hunting including a sow and cub that came in while cow calling to 20 yards. I think the fence choice mentioned above would be your best bet for peace of mind. If you are backpack hunting that would not really be feasible. Having stock in camp definitely helps as well. I know I sleep much lighter when camping in grizz country. I was shed hunting last weekend and saw multiple piles of grizz shit and then spent the night in my backpack tent. One has to have faith that the odds are on your side and you will be safe. I also had my 308 for a little peace of mind

 

[dog812]

I dont have any griz while sleeping stories but Ill give my latest experience.. I am still afraid of bears, and my hunting buddies get on me about it.. but i have had 4 encounters. This one was probably the scariest for me.
2 years ago i was hunting elk on the alberta and bc border in canada. I was calling elk in all morning but no shooters. It was time for lunch . Our wall tent ws only about a km away. I drove my truck up the road to make up some ground in the early morning. So i was walking back to my truck. i could see it , probably 200 yards. When a mother and 2 big , probably 1.5 year cubs. Came on to the road between me and my truck.
I started making noise and stuf.. didnt even phase them. I didnt want to duck into the trees and lose sight of them so I walked towards them , they still stayed put. Yelling , waving my arms, nothing... . i was able to walk past the cubs, maybe 30 yards and the mom about 50 yards.. keeping my rifle on the mom the whole walk.. and they didnt even move..
I got to the back of my truck, and heard something coming through the trees to my left. So i jumped up on my sled deck.. sure enough one of the cubs came out right at my driver door. So weird.. thank god my truck was there.
I had 2 more encounters that trip with griz. But nothing like that.
They do scare me, but not enough to stop hunting..

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Aside from what is posted above, I'm told sprinkling a little bleach around your camp turns bears away. It interrupts their olfactory senses, at least, that's the rumor. Another guy recommended an outer circle of bleach and an inner circle of ammonia (careful not to mix em). Can anyone say for certain whether this is bullcrap or a practical idea? I don't sleep well in bear country either, bear-impersonating marmots raise my pulse and make me feel vulnerable. I think this is why I am driven to hunt them with my bow, they intimidate me and I wanna face my fear. On the other hand perhaps I am just having a midlife crisis or have been married so long, I no longer fear death. So puzzling.

[video=youtube;IWq7jw1d590]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWq7jw1d590[/video]

 

[djsmith46]

So does good whiskey


I have hunted in griz country for years. We have had one tense night, but that was completely our fault. If you are smart, take care of your food and any game parts you will likely be fine.

I've had many more terrifying experiences with lightning than I have long toed bears.

I hate lightning too. Especially since I read somewhere it can travel 9 miles horizontally (or something terrifying like that) and I guy at work with cousin was killed by lightning while out in the woods. Basically if you can hear the thunder you could be potentially struck at any moment...SPLENDID. As far as Grizzlies....only hunted grizzly country once and I didn't have to sleep in a tent.

 

[COlineman78]

I carry my .45 and make sure they are conicals and not hollow points. The reason I don't believe in bear spray because of the exact thing the guy in the video says: the wind blew it away. Also, I like the idea of the ability to use a warning shot to scare them away when they are plenty far away which I would imagine is more effective than yelling. This year there was a dramatic increase in bear sightings between our group and others that hunt the same area for rifle. 6 different bears were seen in one week, one of which was within 30 yards and heading straight towards me when I scared him off (I had my .45 drawn and ready though). Another guy saw 2 at a watering hole one morning, both within 20 yards with nothing but a bow. I will be spending a week in griz country backpacking in Montana this summer, so I will certainly be more careful than I am in CO. I will add that I had heard the same thing about bear spray and it being useless at night as you will just end up spraying yourself instead of the bear.

 

[JP100]

Some interesting ideas here. Im from NZ and we dont have anything dangerous here(apart from the weather and mountains) and I spent 3 months last year in BC,Canada in bear country guiding. The whole time I was in a tent(wall or pup tent). It was weird for me because it is hard to be afraid of something you are not used to seeing, I carried a gun most of the time but felt safe all the time. All our campsites had worn down grizz tracks into camp and big rub trees right in the camp areas. The guides I was with said its no use taking food away from camp as they know where the camps are any way so we had our food in the camp/tents all the time. Seemed abit weird to me??
Having horses around was good as they would alert you to anything long before you saw it. That said I only had one encounter with a big Black bear at about 10 yards one morning in camp, threw a few rocks and made some noise and he left after a while.
Im worried that Im not afraid enough of them?
Seems to me they mostly keep to themselves unless they are a kill or the old sow and cub scenario, I think Ile keep the .45/70 bear spray close just in case

 

[rodney482]

I had no more than taken this pic when a black bear came running down the hill from behind me.

I heard something coming hard (thinking elk) I turned and saw the bear, it was 20 yds and coming like a freight train. Before I could turn and grab my pistol the bear blew by me at about 5 feet.

It happened so fast I had zero time to react.

 

[Kevin Dill]

If we had a better understanding of the likelihood of severe injuries, we would probably sell our spray and our sidearms. We would use that money to buy crash helmets and 4-pt safety harnesses for our cars. We (as humans) aren't afraid of wrecking when we drive, but we are afraid of bears, sharks, lightning and things which produce horrible deaths. The odds are miniscule, but knowing the odds still might not help you relax when a twig snaps at 2 am.

When I hunt alone in serious wilderness grizzly country, I carry a sidearm. That's mainly because I can use it multiple times if needed. I can haze a threatening bear with a warning shot. I can shoot through my micro-thin tipi fabric and not gas myself to death. I can ignore wind direction. I can fly with my gun(s). I like gunpowder propellants better than compressed air. I don't need to have a bad-ass bear at handshake distance before I can start defending my hide.

There is a considerable amount of pressure to NOT use firearms for general bear defense. It's unpopular to gun down Mama-Grizz for busting up your camp and threatening to realign your facial features. The data put forth generally favors spray products. I get it. There is plenty of data available which will also tell you that concealed carry is more likely to end with your own injury and you'd be better off with a different strategy. That doesn't stop us from examining the data, the source, and the real world...people and their encounters...and what worked for them. Guns work. Spray works. Each is different and has a place. Calling one or the other vastly superior is probably incorrect, but might be politically correct. Anyway, I've heard it said that a .454 (etc) is simply a more expensive sleep aid than a can of pepper.

I have more thoughts on this. Right now I've got to figure out a lightning rod for my tipi. Dang!

 

[ndbwhunter]

For those of you that have had encounters with griz in MT, where areas are you hunting? I'm heading out to 560 this year, and have been doing a lot of research on the grizz in the areas that I'm looking at. One area inparticular is supposed to be loaded with grizz, but it's great elk habitat with very little hunting pressure. Feel free to PM me if you like.

 

[Johnboy]

If we had a better understanding of the likelihood of severe injuries, we would probably sell our spray and our sidearms. We would use that money to buy crash helmets and 4-pt safety harnesses for our cars. We (as humans) aren't afraid of wrecking when we drive, but we are afraid of bears, sharks, lightning and things which produce horrible deaths. The odds are miniscule, but knowing the odds still might not help you relax when a twig snaps at 2 am.

The problem I have with this type of analysis is that the miniscule probability of an encounter between a random person of the general population (subject of the broader statistic) and a wild grizzly bear is due to the fact that most people don't spend any time in grizzly country. Hunters who hunt in grizzly country must, by virtue of proximity, be exponentially more likely to encounter of grizzly in the wild. The more pertinent statistic would be that of the subset of the general population that actually spends time where wild grizzlies live.

It's kind of like the old saying, "the drive to the airport is far more dangerous than the airline flight to wherever you're headed." I doubt this saying holds true for a guy driving to the airport to practice aerobatic maneuvers in his stunt plane.

 

[wyosteve]

Johnboy hit it on the head. Every year since 1995 that I"ve been in the woods, I've seen/encountered grizzlies. Some close, some farther away. So, statistically, I've been 100% likely to bump into a bear.

 

[airlocksniffer]

Johnboy, you are absolutely correct. Especially considering as hunters (especially bowhunting), we basically do everything you are not supposed to do in griz country. Moving quietly, camo, using scent control/working the wind, hopefully dealing with hundreds of pounds of meat and guts. Carry a firearm and/or bear spray and keep your wits about you. A little fear is natural and probably helpful with the heightened senses. I just think it's important not to fear an imminent attack. Some of the best elk hunting is in bear country and having an irrational level of fear will ruin your hunt.