Question on MIL dope card

[JFK]

FFP/MIL is new to me but going to give it a go to see if I like it. Scope is swfa 3-9. While not really long range I am currently very comfortable out to 600 yards using the shv 3-10 on my main rifle. I currently use a dope card taped to my scope in 25 yard increments. It is updated based on where I’m shooting for elevation and environmentals. I’d like to stick with the same system as it’s simple and fast.

My question is how do guys lay out there dope cards when using mils? With MOA and 25 yard increments I round to the closest .25 moa on my card. It’s not precise but doesn’t negatively effect hitting what I aim at. With mils and a 10 base system the need to round is eliminated since any given yardage has a solution that can be dialed…but it seems that it makes it hard to have a quick reference card in 25 yard increments. I’m not messing with an app solver while hunting. Range, reference dope, dial, shoot is how I need it to be.

Example based on my rifle and cartridge:
400yds is 1.3mils up. 425yds is 1.5mils up. If I ran 25 yard increments on my card do I just accept that between 410-420yds the actual solution is 1.4mil and it’ll be accurate enough?

What are you guys doing for quick reference in MILs?

 

[BBob]

Example based on my rifle and cartridge:
400yds is 1.3mils up. 425yds is 1.5mils up. If I ran 25 yard increments on my card do I just accept that between 410-420yds the actual solution is 1.4mil and it’ll be accurate enough?

It would be plenty accurate enough.

 

[BRTreedogs]

10th mil at 400 is 1.44"

 

[ResearchinStuff]

So @Formidilosus has a trick for this, it works really well for standard cartridges and slick bullets. You probably won't even need a dope card, this gets you really close for fast shots, and if you have time for the shot just use your ballistics solver. I don't know where the original post was, so here's my rendition:

First memorize the base solution for drop:
100 - 0 mil
200 - 0.5 mil
300 - 1.0 mil
400 - 2.0 mil
500 - 3.0 mil
600 - 4.0 mil

Then, notice that 200-300 yards you're drop is 0.1 mil per 20 yards. Beyond 300, your drop is 0.1 mil per 10 yards. A few examples:
429 - 2.3 mil
583 - 3.8 mil
250 - .7 or .8 - this one could go either way.

If your gun is particularly good (fast, high bc) so this doesn't work, you then subtract 0.5 mil from any base solution beyond 300. If it's particularly bad (slow, low bc) you add 0.5 mil to any base solution beyond 300. This should get you very, very close to your actual firing solution, for me it's within 0.1 mil inside 600 yards.

Just for completeness, its also worth posting the mils wind hold method. For wind holds in mils from 0-600, look up your bullets g1 bc. The first digit either is is that bullets "mph," or is very close to it. So, plugging in a full value, 90 degree angle with wind at that velocity (i.e 5 mph for a .530 g1 bc) should produce a wind hold table that looks like this in your solver:

100 - 0.1 mil
200 - 0.2 mil
300 - 0.3 mil
400 - 0.4 mil
500 - 0.5 mil
600 - 0.6 mil

If it's off, adjust wind speed 1 mph up or down until it does line up. Whatever the wind speed is that produces the above result is your guns "mph", and you can use multiple of that mph to make wind holds on the fly.

Examples for a 5 mph gun
A. 15 mph full value at 500 yards:
3x.5= 1.5 mil

B. 2.5 mph full value at 400:
.5x.4 = .2mil

These two tricks combine to make mils an incredibly user friendly system for dialing, holding, and shooting stuff.

 

[slowelk]

So @Formidilosus has a trick for this, it works really well for standard cartridges and slick bullets. You probably won't even need a dope card, this gets you really close for fast shots, and if you have time for the shot just use your ballistics solver. I don't know where the original post was, so here's my rendition:

First memorize the base solution for drop:
100 - 0 mil
200 - 0.5 mil
300 - 1.0 mil
400 - 2.0 mil
500 - 3.0 mil
600 - 6.0 mil

Then, notice that 200-300 yards you're drop is 0.1 mil per 20 yards. Beyond 300, your drop is 0.1 mil per 10 yards. A few examples:
429 - 2.3 mil
583 - 3.8 mil
250 - .7 or .8 - this one could go either way.

If your gun is particularly good (fast, high bc) so this doesn't work, you then subtract 0.5 mil from any base solution beyond 300. If it's particularly bad (slow, low bc) you add 0.5 mil to any base solution beyond 300. This should get you very, very close to your actual firing solution, for me it's within 0.1 mil inside 600 yards.

Just for completeness, its also worth posting the mils wind hold method. For wind holds in mils from 0-600, look up your bullets g1 bc. The first digit either is is that bullets "mph," or is very close to it. So, plugging in a full value, 90 degree angle with wind at that velocity (i.e 5 mph for a .530 g1 bc) should produce a wind hold table that looks like this in your solver:

100 - 0.1 mil
200 - 0.2 mil
300 - 0.3 mil
400 - 0.4 mil
500 - 0.5 mil
600 - 0.6 mil

If it's off, adjust wind speed 1 mph up or down until it does line up. Whatever the wind speed is that produces the above result is your guns "mph", and you can use multiple of that mph to make wind holds on the fly.

Examples for a 5 mph gun
A. 15 mph full value at 500 yards:
3x.5= 1.5 mil

B. 2.5 mph full value at 400:
.5x.4 = .2mil

These two tricks combine to make mils an incredibly user friendly system for dialing, holding, and shooting stuff.

I assume a typo on 600 yard drop - should be 4.0 mils, not 6.0. I agree, this does work. I find I am usually subtracting 0.1-0.2 mils from distances over 300-600.

The wind gun number where bc (0.5 g1) lines up with the mph (5) is mostly true for a .308 or at sea level. More slippery and faster cartridges out in the western US (generally slightly higher elevation) are usually 1-2mph better than their bc (.646 g1 bc is usually a 7-8mph gun).

Gauging wind without a meter is still hard for me though. A 10mph wind in the mountains feels like nothing because of how frequently the wind is blowing - your baseline is off. So I carry a wind meter and check it whenever I sit down just to gather reference points.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

@slowelk good catch, fat fingered that on my phone, fixed the original.

 

[JFK]

So @Formidilosus has a trick for this, it works really well for standard cartridges and slick bullets. You probably won't even need a dope card, this gets you really close for fast shots, and if you have time for the shot just use your ballistics solver. I don't know where the original post was, so here's my rendition:

First memorize the base solution for drop:
100 - 0 mil
200 - 0.5 mil
300 - 1.0 mil
400 - 2.0 mil
500 - 3.0 mil
600 - 4.0 mil

Then, notice that 200-300 yards you're drop is 0.1 mil per 20 yards. Beyond 300, your drop is 0.1 mil per 10 yards. A few examples:
429 - 2.3 mil
583 - 3.8 mil
250 - .7 or .8 - this one could go either way.

If your gun is particularly good (fast, high bc) so this doesn't work, you then subtract 0.5 mil from any base solution beyond 300. If it's particularly bad (slow, low bc) you add 0.5 mil to any base solution beyond 300. This should get you very, very close to your actual firing solution, for me it's within 0.1 mil inside 600 yards.

Just for completeness, its also worth posting the mils wind hold method. For wind holds in mils from 0-600, look up your bullets g1 bc. The first digit either is is that bullets "mph," or is very close to it. So, plugging in a full value, 90 degree angle with wind at that velocity (i.e 5 mph for a .530 g1 bc) should produce a wind hold table that looks like this in your solver:

100 - 0.1 mil
200 - 0.2 mil
300 - 0.3 mil
400 - 0.4 mil
500 - 0.5 mil
600 - 0.6 mil

If it's off, adjust wind speed 1 mph up or down until it does line up. Whatever the wind speed is that produces the above result is your guns "mph", and you can use multiple of that mph to make wind holds on the fly.

Examples for a 5 mph gun
A. 15 mph full value at 500 yards:
3x.5= 1.5 mil

B. 2.5 mph full value at 400:
.5x.4 = .2mil

These two tricks combine to make mils an incredibly user friendly system for dialing, holding, and shooting stuff.

Appreciate the detailed response. I like the idea of the above system. I just bounced some of those base solutions against the ballistics of my rifle and I’d need to subtract .5mil off past 300. But you are right it gets you very close.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

That's the "good gun" adjustment.

 

[JFK]

That's the "good gun" adjustment.

I just looked at my dope again and it looks like the .5 subtraction doesn’t come into play until further out. 400yds I’m running at 1.8mil, so closer to two mils than 1.5. But then at 500-600yds my data has me at .5 mils less than the base values you listed above.

I’ll need to play around with it but pretty sure I can still make it work.

 

[Raypo]

I use all MIL scopes, even though my military background taught me MOA. I do exactly what you suggested. I do accept it. I carry cards with 50 yard increments. If I ranged an animal at 525 yards, I would just simply split the difference and consider it good. Even if the shot is off a little at 525 yards it will probably be less than 0.1 MIL and not worth a click anyways. Additionally, 1/2 MOA at 500 yards is as good as I can shoot consistently. When I go to the range, I shoot off packs, sticks, packs, and sometimes I’ll even lay obstacles under my body simulating uneven ground and realistic shots. My goal is with anything under 600 is 1/2 MOA.

 

[Macintosh]

…I currently use a dope card taped to my scope in 25 yard increments. ….Example based on my rifle and cartridge:
400yds is 1.3mils up. 425yds is 1.5mils up. If I ran 25 yard increments on my card do I just accept that between 410-420yds the actual solution is 1.4mil and it’ll be accurate enough?

My question—how is this different than the equivalent in moa? Maybe I’m misunderstanding the question, but I see the exact same issue with MOA scopes. My example:
My 300 yard solution is 1.2mil, 325 is 1.4. So if I range 315yds its a good bet I dial 1.3. But the exact same thing in MOA is 4.2moa at 300 and 4.9 at 325…even if you round to the nearest .25moa on your card you still have a bigger “numerical gap” to estimate. I guess Id suggest handling it the exact same way you already do on your moa dope card.

Also, there is nothing that says your dope card needs to be linear—just as a possible example, rather than doing it every 25 yards all the way out, you could use range increments that correspond to every other click (so ranges corresponding to zero, +.2mil, +.4mil, +.6, .8, 1, etc). This would mean estimating between increments youd always have only one option, and with increasingly shorter increments on your card. Now, Ive never used this and have no idea if Id like it, but in some ways it could simplify things if you are hung up estimating between your dope-card ranges. Probably a terrible idea, just food for thought.
Im not the right guy to ask, I just have a 10-yard increment dope card from 150 yards to the range at which my ammo goes below a given velocity, but every time Ive had an oppty to use it I had time and just used my phone app.

 

[JFK]

My question—how is this different than the equivalent in moa? Maybe I’m misunderstanding the question, but I see the exact same issue with MOA scopes. My example:
My 300 yard solution is 1.2mil, 325 is 1.4. So if I range 315yds its a good bet I dial 1.3. But the exact same thing in MOA is 4.2moa at 300 and 4.9 at 325…even if you round to the nearest .25moa on your card you still have a bigger “numerical gap” to estimate. I guess Id suggest handling it the exact same way you already do on your moa dope card.

Also, there is nothing that says your dope card needs to be linear—just as a possible example, rather than doing it every 25 yards all the way out, you could use range increments that correspond to every other click (so ranges corresponding to zero, +.2mil, +.4mil, +.6, .8, 1, etc). This would mean estimating between increments youd always have only one option, and with increasingly shorter increments on your card. Now, Ive never used this and have no idea if Id like it, but in some ways it could simplify things if you are hung up estimating between your dope-card ranges. Probably a terrible idea, just food for thought.
Im not the right guy to ask, I just have a 10-yard increment dope card from 150 yards to the range at which my ammo goes below a given velocity, but every time Ive had an oppty to use it I had time and just used my phone app.

Good points. I think I’ll probably just keep it in 25 yard increments and take it to the range see how it works. I get it that targets are rarely at nice clean yardages and you’ll inevitably have to make some judgement calls. I just try to have as much as that worked out in advance. Like I said, mil is new to me, but I’m probably over thinking it.

So you guys know where I’m coming from this is how I set it up.

I have a very simply card on my scope for MOA. I’ll probably lose the inches of drop column as I’ve never use it. Then in my bino harness I have another slightly larger card with data out to 700 yards with wind at 5 and 10mph.

 

[Wrench]

If hunting elk sized game, 25yds is way overkill unless you are into the 4 digit area. If you are hunting 3" targets.....I suggest you dial every shot.

 

[JFK]

If hunting elk sized game, 25yds is way overkill unless you are into the 4 digit area. If you are hunting 3" targets.....I suggest you dial every shot.

It doesn’t cost me anything to have it broken down in 25 yards. As you can see it fits right there on the ocular of my scope. It makes things faster, not slower, for me. I’m not an accuracy nerd, but I see no reason to guess when the data is available.

 

[Wrench]

It doesn’t cost me anything to have it broken down in 25 yards. As you can see it fits right there on the ocular of my scope. It makes things faster, not slower, for me. I’m not an accuracy nerd, but I see no reason to guess when the data is available.

My comment was directed at shooting longer ranges. If you stretch to 8-1500 and have 25yd incs....that's a lot of lines to weed through. Add in environmentals and suddenly it gets into the weeds. A 15mph breeze can change the vertical 5-6" at 500yds.

 

[JFK]

My comment was directed at shooting longer ranges. If you stretch to 8-1500 and have 25yd incs....that's a lot of lines to weed through. Add in environmentals and suddenly it gets into the weeds. A 15mph breeze can change the vertical 5-6" at 500yds.

Fair enough and I agree. I don’t shoot that far and don’t really have a desire to. Maybe at steel, but not hunting.

Appreciate the advice from everyone.

 

[Gargoyle]

I'd recommend this.

With a 200yd zero the popular hunting cartridges will print: +/- .2"

100 200 300
1.5" 0 -8"

Straight hold to 200, then horizontal crosshair on the animal's back. (Maybe a sliver of daylight above)

Animal past 300yds use the dials. You can fit more long distance DOPE on your ocular chart. This system frees my mind of math and allows me to make fast effective shots.

With MRAD I always multiply distance in yards by .36 to know inches travel per .1 mil click.

 

[ID_Matt]

With MRAD I always multiply distance in yards by .36 to know inches travel per .1 mil click.

Why do you do this?