new rifles and twist rates

[ST52v]

My father in law wants a new rifle. We will be looking at Tikkas and Savages. He is 68 and wants this gun to do it all. He will hunt with it every year in Pa for whitetails and for elk and mule deer . He has an older Ruger 270. He has shot my brothers (hot rod) 270wsm and liked it. He also shot it well. A few weeks ago I thought a 280 would be ideal. It would have more power than the 7mmo8 yet the same higher bc bullets. Is it wrong to think most new guns will not shoot them very well do to the 1-9.5 barrel twist in any of the 7mm's. I see Remington's use a 1-9.25 twist . Is there a factory gun out there that will shoot the heavier high bc bullets better than any other. Am I wrong to believe that in most new guns 7mmo8, 270 ect.he will end up shooting 140 accubond type bullet. Right now we are leaning towards a reg 270 in a Tikka t3 light. It will be easy to carry, not to stiff on the recoil and ammo availability. Thanks for your thoughts and comments. Robin

 

[Shrek]

The 280 is an awsome choice and the 9.5 twist will get you through the 168gr vlds and 175gr standard bullets. I haven't checked the recommend twist for the 180gr vld bullets but I'm pretty sure the 9.25 twist will stabilize the 180gr vlds and the 9.5 may also. The Berger website is down for maintenance so I can't check their recomended twist for the 180vlds.

 

[KMD]

My 7WSM is a 1:9" and it will stabilize the 180 VLDs @ <100ft. ASL just fine. I mostly shoot the 162Amaxs thru it, and even though Hornday recommends a 1:8" for 'em, the 1:9" twist will stabilize them to 1300yds @ ~1,000ftASL. But that's the furthest I shot them to know for sure.
You might could get away with a 9.5 twist for the 180s, depending on how thin your air is. In your case, if you are wanting to stay with a Berger product, I'd lean toward the 168VLDs just to be safe. Plus, the increased launch velocity of the 168s over the 180s is enough to afford them a ballistic edge for several hundred yards before the higher b.c. of the 180s pays dividends...

Good luck! That .280 should make ya both smile!!!

 

[ST52v]

Thanks!! I did look at the hornady a-max last week but it's recommended 1-9 or faster. Has anyone used the Berger hybrids in 168. They claim 1-10 will shoot them.

 

[ST52v]

We went to a shop today and looked at some T-3s. They are nice and they had a 270 win and 7mm08. The two guys working there laughed at the idea of using a 270 out west. One guy stated it was a tomato stake and he would not take it anywhere. He said you might be able to kill a mule deer with it. lol There is nothing worst than guys selling guns that think they are experts but know nothing.

 

[Shrek]

A 270 win will kill plenty of game but from where I stand it's next to last on the standard popular rifle cartridge list. Beating out only the 25-06. They both have terrible bc bullet selections and both inefficient powder burners. Yes they are making some new high bc bullets in 25 cal and .277 cal but no, your factory rifle will not stabilize them.
You can at least match and mostly beat them with a 7mm-08 or 308 and the 280 ai is darn close to a modern cartridge with the best selection of high bc . In a factory rifle for moderate range a 7mm-08 is hard to beat for versatility and is the reason that I have bought and sold a bunch of different caliber rifles but always have a 7-08 in my possession. I know that if every other rifle I have is in some state of disassembly or disrepair if I have my 7-08 right I'm covered for most anything.

 

[flyinsquirel]

I shoot a lowly 270 and haven't had any problems with 130 Barnes TTSX out to 400.

Dave, how much would a guy gain with a 280ai vs a 7-08? I've been thinking of getting something in a short action and a 7-08 has peaked some interest. I have always lusted over the 7mm ballistics, but can't warm up to the 7mag. I think it's overrated.

Sorry for the hijack.

 

[Shrek]

Please don't get me wrong , a 270 is an effective cartridge and there is nothing wrong with it. I haven't owned a 280 so I can only quote others success. The 7mm-08 will push a 140gr to just under 3000fps in all of the 7-08 rifles I've owned. Brass life isn't great at that speed but if you drop it down to 2850fps I can get 6-8 loadings before the primer pockets get too loose. I hear of 3000fps + with 160gr bullets with the 280ai were you are in the low 2720fps range with the 162 sst I tried in my 7-08 . I'm going to try some 168gr berger hybrids in my 7-08 but I'm terribly short on h4350 right now. I've got to work up some 168gr loads for my 7mm wsm first but whenever I do that I'll probably burn the last of my h4350 for some 7-08 loads to go with it. Going to try h1000 and retumbo in the 7mm wsm.

 

[Justin Crossley]

I shoot a lowly 270 and haven't had any problems with 130 Barnes TTSX out to 400.

Dave, how much would a guy gain with a 280ai vs a 7-08? I've been thinking of getting something in a short action and a 7-08 has peaked some interest. I have always lusted over the 7mm ballistics, but can't warm up to the 7mag. I think it's overrated.

Sorry for the hijack.

What don't you like about the 7mm mag? I think that is one of the best all around calibers.

In fact I think the 7mm mag is the best caliber offered in a Tikka for "all around use".

 

[Shrek]

I agree the 7mm rem mag is great but it's at the upper end of tolerable recoil without a brake for most people . I can't find much fault with most 7mm cartridges honestly.

 

[ST52v]

Thanks for your thoughts!! He may shoot my friends t-3 300 win mag next week to see how he likes it.

 

[KMD]

The Tikka T3 is based off a "one size fits all" long action. That said, if a T3 were the platform of choice, I'd stick with running a long action cartridge. 7Mag for factory, or re-barreled to 280AI or even a 7WSM throated long would be an absolute beast!

 

[flyinsquirel]

Agree with the above. If going Tikka might as well go with a long cartridge.

No worries Dave, the 270 has been handicapped by poor bullet selection and everyone knows it.

I just know too many people(friends) who think a 7mag makes you capable of killing deer out to 500yds. While anything smaller is inadequate and just wounds animals. It's just the nonconformist in me I guess. My not being able to warm up to the 7mag has nothing to with it's ability, it's a burner for sure.

 

[Shrek]

Or get a savage weather warrior in 6.5x284 and also order a custom 280ai barrel from the gunshak and have the best of deer and antelope in the 6.5 and when planning bigger switch out to the 280 ai for an elk hunt . Truth be told the 6.5x284 will kill any elk also but the 280ai barrel option would be cool. It's not a huge project to change the barrel on a savage but it does take a little work. I could swap one out with the barrel nut wrench , vice , and barrel wrench in less than an hour all sighted back in. Lots of fun options.

 

[Shrek]

I'm 100% with you on the nonconformist attitude. I'm shooting a 7mm wsm. When I rebarrel it I think I am going with a 7mm-300wsm for a longer neck.

 

[Jason Snyder]

We went to a shop today and looked at some T-3s. They are nice and they had a 270 win and 7mm08. The two guys working there laughed at the idea of using a 270 out west. One guy stated it was a tomato stake and he would not take it anywhere. He said you might be able to kill a mule deer with it. lol There is nothing worst than guys selling guns that think they are experts but know nothing.

Maybe he knows something that Jack O'Connor didn't?

A tomato stake my ass. If you told me I could hunt every NA animal and the only caveat was that I had to use a .270 I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Haha, I know of at least 50 elk that have been tomato staked by my family!

 

[Shrek]

But don't kid yourself , a 270 makes a fine tomato stake too

 

[Ryan Avery]

Dave, my first rifle was a Remington 788 in 270. Shot my first elk, deer and bear with it. But being a punk ass kid I ran it over breaking the stock and bending the barrel. So I guess she really could be a tomato stake

 

[Shrek]

If the action isn't hurt you should build something cool like a 280 ai on it.