Neck tension and the placebo effect

[Pharmseller]

So I bought a bunch of once-fired (theoretically) .223 Rem R-P brass, fully prepped. Very uniform in length and mouth dimensions BUT the neck is really tight, like .217”-.218”. When I neck size my fired brass the collet gets it to about .222”, which my rifle seems to like. Seating the 75 gr ELDM is quite the chore, significantly different than my neck sized brass.

I can run the cases over the expander ball easy enough and get .221”-.222” but it’s an extra step.

Here’s the question, and I’m not sure if the difference in my accuracy is self-inflicted (placebo) or a real thing.

Can different neck tensions have a significant effect on accuracy? Or is it in my head?




P

 

[Jimbee]

Do the "Pepsi challenge" and let us know.

 

[fisherman983]

It absolutely can and will have a dramatic effect

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[Article 4]

Do what the rifle likes, no matter how many steps. Its a rifle specific thing.

I run bushing dies expressly for this reason and it has benefitting me in many rifles. For example:

I have a wildcat 7-300 PRC that was shooting around 1/2 to a 1/3 MOA. Same load and same bullet, by increasing neck tension from .311 to a .310 bushing, it became a 1.4 MOA rifle and my SDs went from 11 to 8.
Just built a 25 creedmoor running 135s - same deal, by increasing neck tension a thou, I have a 1/4 MOA rifle with SD's of 2.6

Was it only the neck tension? Maybe, maybe not, but the results seem to lead that way.

 

[Pharmseller]

Dang it, that’s what I figured.

Not a big deal, easy to open them up. It’s worth it.




P

 

[BallisticJesus]

Neck tension is a last and often unnecessary obsession.

Quality components
Ladder/Velocity node
Seating depth
Neck tension if you have nothing better to do

Three different rifles in the past couple weeks.

The target pic is from when I confirmed my 300 yard zero with my 25 Creedmoor during deer season.

 

[wind gypsy]

What's worse, guys who have a 1/4 MOA rifle because it shot a 1/4 MOA 3 shot group or guys who have a 2.6 SD load because that's what it was with 3 shots?

 

[Article 4]

What's worse, guys who have a 1/4 MOA rifle because it shot a 1/4 MOA 3 shot group or guys who have a 2.6 SD load because that's what it was with 3 shots?

Whats worse? It is a guy who's goal is to insult knowing it has NOTHING to do with the OPs question, just to show everyone how rude they are.

 

[Wrench]

High neck tension most certainly can affect the accuracy and sd. Does it always?....no.

More importantly than the amount of neck tension is the amount of neck clearance. If you are tight and eating into the last few thou of clearance, you're going to have problems.

 

[wind gypsy]

Whats worse? It is a guy who's goal is to insult knowing it has NOTHING to do with the OPs question, just to show everyone how rude they are.

You are correct. That was definitely worse and uncalled for.

 

[Article 4]

You are correct. That was definitely worse and uncalled for.

Appreciate that, water under the bridge
Cheers

 

[BallisticJesus]

Whats worse? It is a guy who's goal is to insult knowing it has NOTHING to do with the OPs question, just to show everyone how rude they are.

Worse than that is a clueless reply such as the one pasted above.

The OP did ask his question.

“Can different neck tensions have a significant effect on accuracy? Or is it in my head?”

I answered his question by saying . Neck tension is often a needless obsession and then posted pictures of SD’s and a group that were results of not giving a crap about neck tension. But staying in line with quality components and proper load development.

Feel free to edit the error in judgement from your misguided, incorrect reply.

 

[Article 4]

Worse than that is a clueless reply such as the one pasted above.

The OP did ask his question.

“Can different neck tensions have a significant effect on accuracy? Or is it in my head?”

I answered his question by saying . Neck tension is often a needless obsession and then posted pictures of SD’s and a group that were results of not giving a crap about neck tension. But staying in line with quality components and proper load development.

Feel free to edit the error in judgement from your misguided, incorrect reply.

Ugh, so boring.
What @windy gypsy and I settled has nothing to do with you. And we came to a great place.

Comments like yours ruin a great thread through your lack of civility and respect. Hope your morning gets better. Cheers

 

[Pharmseller]

The more I think about it the more I believe the issue to be consistency rather than specific tension.

I worked up the load at .222” but the new (to me) brass is .217”. They don’t shoot the same.

Once I fire and neck size the .217” it becomes .222” for subsequent loadings.

So my OCD kicks in and I figure what the heck, be consistent, open the necks a bit. It’s easy. If nothing else it gives me more confidence in my finished product and we all know how important that is.




P

 

[Article 4]

The more I think about it the more I believe the issue to be consistency rather than specific tension.

I worked up the load at .222” but the new (to me) brass is .217”. They don’t shoot the same.

Once I fire and neck size the .217” it becomes .222” for subsequent loadings.

So my OCD kicks in and I figure what the heck, be consistent, open the necks a bit. It’s easy. If nothing else it gives me more confidence in my finished product and we all know how important that is.




P

OCD is a fantastic trait when it is productive. I know as I have it too LOL

Kinda how I arrived at neck tension as a final step. Had quite a few rifles that shot great without worrying about it over the years. Hadn't turned a neck or bought additional bushings, ever.

It wasn't until I had some accuracy issues that I began to get OCD and measure every little thing...neck thickness - tension and going deep and OCD on case prep etc... and it brought the rifles and loads right into a great place. The point of neck turning is to get a consistent thickness of brass which will in turn create more consistent neck tension. So to determine if you may benefit you need a ball mic and you need to measure the necks in different places to get an idea of how good they are. If your rifles shoots, without it, boom. If not, might be a good move. For me, it is my SOP on every load and every rifle.

Agree, whatever it takes to create confidence, is a good thing.

 

[wind gypsy]

I have only dabbled a thou or 2 with bushing dies in a past life and didn't see anything concrete in results. I do believe some folks when they say theyve seen marked differnces between say 1 or 2 and 4 thou of interference fit.

I primarily just try to avoid excessive/inconsistent seating force and keep enough tension to hold a bullet tight and roll on. 5 thou interference fit seems like a lot on 223 brass?

 

[BallisticJesus]

Ugh, so boring.
What @windy gypsy and I settled has nothing to do with you. And we came to a great place.

Comments like yours ruin a great thread through your lack of civility and respect. Hope your morning gets better. Cheers

Drama!

 

[Jake Larsen]

The more I think about it the more I believe the issue to be consistency rather than specific tension.

I worked up the load at .222” but the new (to me) brass is .217”. They don’t shoot the same.

Once I fire and neck size the .217” it becomes .222” for subsequent loadings.

So my OCD kicks in and I figure what the heck, be consistent, open the necks a bit. It’s easy. If nothing else it gives me more confidence in my finished product and we all know how important that is.




P

This has been my experience. Consistently is key. I run my new brass across a mandrel for consistency. Then I resize with a bushing die for the same tension. I haven’t seen it matter if it’s .002, .004 or anything Inbetween. As long as it’s the same.


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[TaperPin]

Neck tension is a last and often unnecessary obsession.

Quality components
Ladder/Velocity node
Seating depth
Neck tension if you have nothing better to do

Three different rifles in the past couple weeks.

The target pic is from when I confirmed my 300 yard zero with my 25 Creedmoor during deer season.





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What is this nice sleek-looking belted case?

 

[sndmn11]

This guy wins cash American dollars by shooting

"

• How much neck tension do you use in your match ammo? Austin: “I don’t really know, but probably 0.004” if I was guessing – either 0.003” or 0.004”. Neck tension is on my list of things that I don’t believe matters, as long it’s tight enough that your bullet doesn’t fall out.” Austin will explain more about his view on neck tension later in this article. (Note: Neck tension refers to how tightly the case grips a bullet and is typically measured in terms of the diameter of the case neck with a bullet loaded in it minus the diameter of the case neck before the bullet was seated. So how much did the case neck diameter expand when you seated the bullet?)
• How much bullet jump do you use? Austin: “I’m not sure. I really don’t ever change my seating die. It stays in my press, and I don’t touch it. I think my bullets are jumping around 0.030” in a brand-new barrel. It’s another thing in my list of things that don’t matter.” (Not sure what bullet jump is? Read this.) Many shooters “chase the lands,” which means they are regularly adjusting their seating die to seat the bullet further and further out as a barrel’s throat erodes to maintain the same relative distance between the bullet and the rifle lands. But Austin never does that.

"

The PRS Champ’s Load Data & Reloading Process – Austin Buschman Shooter Spotlight Part 3

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