More changes to Montana hunting on the horizon.

[406RoadToad]

Pick between archery OR rifle. Not both.

Thoughts?

GoHunt article copied below:

Do you prefer hunting elk with a bow or with a rifle? If you hunt them in Montana, you might have to choose as the state’s Elk Management Citizen Advisory Group recently recommended a new requirement: make hunters choose between archery and rifle seasons to help “reduce crowding and pressure on public lands,” according to the Independent Record.
The 12-member advisory committee was formed this year by Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks (MTFWP) Director Hank Woresch after controversies with the current season setting process and discussion over how to handle elk herds that are over objective and difficult to hunt because of the lack of public access. The committee was tasked with “developing elk management recommendations with a focus on improving relationships between public hunters, landowners and the department,” according to the Independent Record.
The committee knew that this new requirement would be somewhat controversial because the current process allows hunters to purchase both a general elk license and an archery stamp, resulting in an almost 11-week long hunting season with both seasons combined. If the recommendation is approved, those who previously hunted archery and general season will now have to decide which one they prefer, losing out on additional opportunity.
Along with the weapon requirement, the committee also recommended changing seasons to help with “overcrowding and hunting pressure on public land bull elk,” according to the members. The proposed change would have the archery season run for five weeks, beginning on Sept. 1 with a two- to three-week break before the start of the general season in late October. However, during that break, a private land cow elk hunt could be held.
While many supported the recommendations, those who did not say it would only divide hunters and possibly add more pressure to deer if hunters choose to focus on deer when they can’t hunt elk. Others like committee member Scott Van Dyken say it would just decrease the number of bowhunters, not actually do a thing about crowding during rifle season.
“I don’t see this working to relieve rifle pressure,” said Van Dyken.
Regardless, before anything can move beyond a recommendation, the committee wants MFWP to gather additional data and also poll hunters to see which weapon most would choose if they had to only choose one.
Also under scrutiny is the current shoulder seasons, which have been held over the last few years to help manage elk in over-objective districts. The committee says that these additional seasons have “mixed results” and recommended changes so that they can “be used more strategically,” according to the Independent Record. Specifically, the committee is recommending that shoulder seasons not begin until two weeks after general season, adding a shoulder season between archery and rifle season and only use shoulder seasons on private land.
“The intent is to reassess, not do away with (shoulder seasons),” said committee member Race King.
The elk working group will continue to meet twice per month as they work through additional recommendations. Stay tuned to GOHUNT for further updates.

 

[Preston]

I think this would be a step in the right direction and would greatly reduce hunters pressure and keep more elk on public land. I can’t see the benefit of allowing someone to hunt for elk 11 weeks in the current time.

 

[insanelupus]

No thank you. I prefer having both options, bow and rifle.

 

[bobr1]

Talking to an FWP biologist, they don’t believe it will work, and mostly will make hunting pressure worse during rifle season. Mainly because the only people who are going to go for archery only are going to be the very few who are actually good and can get a elk consistently during archery season, the mediocre or newer archers will probably ditch archery not wanting to risk not harvesting an animal and put in for rifle season. So it would probably be much better for people who choose archery. But that’s just his two cents.

 

[ODB]

That's what Washington does. Along with east wide/ west side.

I hunted a spike elk unit during rifle once and it was absolute insanity.

 

[Dust Rider]

Not a fan of the weapon split. I think it will over crowd rifle. Make the seasons shorter and maybe limit tag selection to only one region. Its going to get interesting.

 

[Pony Soldier]

Frankly I'm tired of finding dead elk and wounded elk from archery season. I think a pick your season would trim out the archers that don't practice and cause a lot of this. I hunted many years with a bow but gave it up after a bad experience with polymyalgia rematica. It also bothered me with the risk of losing meat to bugs and spoilage.

Let the serious bowhunters continue and the rest of use a rifle.

 

[Btaylor]

Frankly I'm tired of finding dead elk and wounded elk from archery season. I think a pick your season would trim out the archers that don't practice and cause a lot of this. I hunted many years with a bow but gave it up after a bad experience with polymyalgia rematica. It also bothered me with the risk of losing meat to bugs and spoilage.

Let the serious bowhunters continue and the rest of use a rifle.

How many have you found? In 40 years of hunting I have found 6 deer that were fresh enough to tell how they were killed and all of them were shot with guns. Not disputing that plenty of game doesnt get lost by bowhunters but it is a little disingenuous to act like gun hunters dont shoot up and lose a bunch of game too. Maaybe your perception is skewed due to gun seasons following archery season increasing the likelihood of you finding archery losses, the same as my hunting late season here after the gun seasons close probably has influenced my findings.

 

[Pony Soldier]

We have killed two with hardware in them in the last ten years and 4 with arrows in the rotting carcass. The last rifle shot deer I found was in 1965. The last blood trail on an elk was 2010 and that was the first since 65. A large portion of that is likely because rifle season has snow cover and most of archery season does not.

 

[Preston]

Splitting and shortening the rifle seasons to 10 days, one early and one late, and pick your season would greatly improve hunting during the rifle seasons.

I wonder what they will do with the new muzzleloader season?

 

[Flatgo]

I'm not sure choose your weapon will solve all the issues, but it is a start in the right direction. FWP has screwed up management so bad in montana that something needs to be done. The real problem in Montana is region 1 and 2 which has about 30 to 40 percent of the public land in Montana and there are not a huntable population of elk left in most of these areas. You will here from a lot a people that this is not good elk country, but you study the history in montana, NW montana and Yellowstone were the only places with elk left in the early 1900s. If we could get elk populations back in those areas it would really spread out hunter pressure, but right now everyone from missoula and kalispell and the surrounding communities travel all throughout the state putting pressure on other areas because there are no animals in there back yard.

 

[CoStick]

I think the infighting or isolation tactics in WY and MT might be a bigger issue as demographics are changing in the long run.

 

[Pony Soldier]

This year will be my 59th season and I normally hunt region 3 in Montana. We are totally dependent on the weather. If it is open or between storms you can go weeks without hearing a shot. A cold front hits and the elk will appear and disappear within 1-2 days. A colorado style split season will decrease the probability of success by 50% from maybe to occasionaly. I hunt every day and haven't killed an elk in two years. I cover up to 450 miles on horseback. It ain't Colorado and it is thick. No glassing options just hand to hand combat.

 

[jimh406]

The subject line needs a ? at the end. That is, maybe it will change or maybe the “Elk Advisory Board” submitted a proposal that will never be adapted.

I believe this type of change is an advantage for a bow hunter only or muzzleloader only hunter. I don’t think will make a difference in animal management. It is simply a change for the hunter. At the end of the day, the animals are managed to number taken. It doesn’t matter which season they are in when they die.

 

[S.Clancy]

This year will be my 59th season and I normally hunt region 3 in Montana. We are totally dependent on the weather. If it is open or between storms you can go weeks without hearing a shot. A cold front hits and the elk will appear and disappear within 1-2 days. A colorado style split season will decrease the probability of success by 50% from maybe to occasionaly. I hunt every day and haven't killed an elk in two years. I cover up to 450 miles on horseback. It ain't Colorado and it is thick. No glassing options just hand to hand combat.

How is that possible in R3, there is literally elk everywhere. And the snow pushes them down to trucks, Id rather it stay dry so I can out hike people in R3.

 

[goathunter]

I'm not totally opposed to the idea yet, but this is a BIG change, they say because of "crowding and lack of success." I don't think we're in that bad of shape yet, this sounds like whining you see in the comments section on the FWP facebook page.

With hunters raising concerns about crowding and lack of game, the advisory group on Thursday debated at length the “choose your weapon/season” proposal, realizing it would likely see some public pushback.

After watching the newly appointed FWP commissioner and commission in action this last year, I don't have much faith in the advisory committee having the public hunter's best interest in mind. The commission certainly had the big outfitters best interest in mind until they were called on it, and I don't expect them to stop trying to push outfitter friendly regs through. I am leery of any changes they propose.

Who are these people - anyone know?

 

[Pony Soldier]

How is that possible in R3, there is literally elk everywhere. And the snow pushes them down to trucks, Id rather it stay dry so I can out hike people in R3.

You are thinking Lima in the south, we are in the north between Butte and Helena. Closed roads and heavy tree cover.

 

[S.Clancy]

Who are these people - anyone know?

You can look it up on FWP website and/or watch the meeting videos. Thet are a mix of public land hunters/ranchers/etc

 

[S.Clancy]

You are thinking Lima in the south, we are in the north between Butte and Helena. Closed roads and heavy tree cover.

Do you just like hunting that area? Lots of easier areas to hunt in R3, depending how far you want to drive. Some arent far at all

 

[Pony Soldier]

Too much open land for my likes. I evaluated the Italian Peaks WSA in 81 and the centennial valley phosphate on the idaho side in about 80. I mapped the Horse Prarie country through the 90s as well as Lemhi pass. I even mapped all of the Idaho border country - South of Jackson to Lost Trail.

On the east side I've worked Eureka basin and a lot of that country to Henrys lake. I've worked most of the Gravelies. I've got current projects in the southern Tobacco Roots. None of those places appealed to me. What I haven't hiked I flew a Hughs 500 over so I have seen it fairly well. The thought of being out in that country on a horse in the open just never appealed to me. The closest to that area that I have hunted were the north Rubys before the deer died off and the wolves moved in. I enjoyed hunting them with my kids. I even explored some of the back side of Alder Gulch in Idaho creek a couple times but it was just too open or painfully steep. Riding horse tobbogans to the creek bottoms never made me sign up for another trip.

I have spent a lot of time in the Big Belts and started my career in the Absarokas. The closest country that caught my attention was a fly-over from Helena to Belt to study burning coal seams. As we got near the Smith there were some outstanding herds of elk on the flanks of the timber. I think that country is Sieben ranch. A little too much private land to be attractive. A lot of those big ranches resemble empires and I don't like to play.

My struggle has been in finding areas with horse access, limited roads and no 4 wheelers. It's a game of keep away. They are hard to find.