Long Draw Arrow Setup Help

[BP099]

Hello,

I have struggled time and time again with fixed broadheads and can't find what is causing my issue. I have been resulting back to 125 grain Swackers the week before September in frustration as they fly true to my field points out to at least 80 yards. I have harvested three bulls with them and wounded another, not once had a pass through, and every bull I have found the blades not open and twice even the bands not even broken. After putting an arrow into at least one lung of once in a lifetime bull last year and tracking him for miles without finding him, I would love to swap to a fixed blade broadhead.

My inquiry today is my arrow set-up with that overall goal in mind.

-I currently shoot a Bowtech MagX at 71# and a 33 inch draw on it's performance setting.
-I have been using 250 spine Kinetic Pierce Platinum's uncut with a 125 grain point, the factory inserts, and Q2i Fusion X-II 3" vanes at a 3° helical

I know my cams have no lean and my paper tune looks beautiful. I am really happy with how my bow and arrows perform with the field points and swackers up to 100 yards. But every time I swap to a fixed blade I can't seem to dial it in, the further I shoot the more off the arrow hits, while I can sight it in at say 30 yards, it wont hit where I want at 20 or 40. I have tried my old gold tip hunter pro arrows and my newer kinetic pierce arrows with combinations of G5 montec 3 blade, slick trick magnums, and several different style of muzzys. I usually try to match the arrows with the broadhead that will give me a great balanced spin on my finger as my inserts are already set.

I'm down to 5 of my kinetic pierce and looking to get some new arrows to last the year going to 3D shoots as well as hunting this September.

I would just like some input on what to try, what I might need to do with options on the vanes, inserts, weights, wraps, FOC... etc. I've never really put the time into experimenting with different arrow set-ups and usually just rock with what I've got and make the best of it. Looking at an opportunity here to give me the most consistent and reliable shot I can get if I'm needing new arrows. Also, arrows with the length I need due to my draw are limited, even uncut alot won't make the cut at 33"


Thanks

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Have you attempted any broadhead tuning? Shoot broadheads and field points side-by-side then adjust cam lean/timing and/or rest position to get both arrows to hit the same spot. A good paper tune doesn't guarantee good broadhead flight.

 

[BP099]

I have tried to adjust my rest to get these side by side comparisons, but I have never messed with my cam lean while trying to dial in with broadheads. I could still never get my arrows to fly the same at varying distances and resulted back to the paper tune with the field point to set my rest where it is now. I have also not tweaked my timing shooting broadheads, but I have slow-motion recorded myself drawing and shooting several times to check out my cams. Their timing is even. Would there be a situation I would want to make the cams timing vary between top and bottom?

 

[svivian]

Have you spun your arrows with the fixed blade on? The outsert system may not be plum and causing you issues like wobbling. You may not see a wobble with a field point but once the broadhead is on it really showed it. That is what happened to me when i was shot those arrows.

 

[BP099]

Yes, every time. I match the broadhead to the arrow and definitely check to make sure they don't wobble by spinning it. I actually have been impressed with how balanced some of the broadheads spin compared to even field points, the slick tricks the most.

 

[svivian]

Interesting, I had a hell of a time with those arrows and chased them for weeks until I threw my broadheads onto my buddies easton axis arrows. My problems went away after that.

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

I'm not a compound guy... but that arrow spine seems kinda weak to me if you are drawing 33". How long are your arrows cut? With a trad bow I needed a .260 spine when I got above 65@32"

You said you've paper tuned. Have you shot bareshafts? I'm betting you have a weak setup.

 

[BP099]

I have not shot bare shafts, how would I experiment with that?

I've read that this might be my problem, but at the time I bought them they were the longest uncut arrows and the only ones I could get my hands on that would work. The insert barely sticks out past my rest at full draw, I think they are just over 32" They were also the stiffest arrows I could find. 9.8 grains per inch at 0.245" diameter.
The spine and length on their chart matched up to my draw, point mass, and poundage so I had them set the inserts and vanes.

I like the low profile of these arrows as it's often windy, and I really have been impressed watching the straight flight of them in the wind. But I am not opposed to changing what arrow I shoot if I can find one stiff enough and long enough.

 

[BP099]

Interesting, I had a hell of a time with those arrows and chased them for weeks until I threw my broadheads onto my buddies easton axis arrows. My problems went away after that.

I haven't seen these, but I do see they have a stiff arrow that is long! I will check them out, thank you

 

[Mighty Mouse]

FWIW qSpine says you're fine at 250. If you did want to experiment with stiffer dynamic spine, you could try a 100 gr point/head or turn your draw weight down a bit and see if broadhead flight improves.

Bow inputs: 323 fps IBO, 71# DW, 33" DL, 7" BH, 36" ATA, 80% LO
Arrow inputs: 32" C2C, 125 gr point, 20 gr insert, 24 gr collar, 8 gr nock, 3 vanes at 9.5 gr ea

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I have not shot bare shafts, how would I experiment with that?

Cut the vanes off one arrow and shoot it alongside a fletched shaft. Study the relative points of impact then adjust cam lean/timing, rest position, and/or nocking point position to get the bareshaft and fletched shaft hitting together. Below is a handy reference chart from Gold Tip comparing various tuning methods:

 

[Jg48]

I’m not an expert, definitely a novice. But I have a 33.5 dl and am shooting 74.5# on a Mathews atlas. Whenever I’ve posed the question to forums, majority recommend 200spine. I even asked Aron Snyder on instagram and he said 150 or 200. I have shot gold tip kinetic khaos and and currently shooting Sirius Orion. Both come 32in uncut. Black eagle also has a few options in 200spine and even 150spine.

Also, I wonder if maybe you aren’t squaring the arrows because you are using them uncut? Could add wobble to broadhead that isn’t really effecting field points or mechanical

 

[I hunt_dm3]

Did you ever get your fixed blades to fly the same? I have the same DL and arrows and can’t get them to fly with my field points.

 

[Shawn_Guinn]

I would look at kinetic kaos 200’s or me personally black eagle rampage 150’s. I’m 30.5 and 73 and I shout 250s cut short as possible with 175 or 200 up front. Your power stroke is insane at 33.5. Tuning will be more problematic than a guy with 28.5. Fixed heads are gonna exaggerate your problems. Just the length of time it takes to get an arrow out of your bow alone is exaggerated. Me personally having never really shot expandable heads due to legality in Idaho but this year it’s legal I’m settling on sevr 1.5 they fly great. I’m not worried about penetration my arrow is 540 grains going 270 plus. Your in an even better situation the benefits of long draw definitely out do the negatives.

 

[I hunt_dm3]

I would look at kinetic kaos 200’s or me personally black eagle rampage 150’s. I’m 30.5 and 73 and I shout 250s cut short as possible with 175 or 200 up front. Your power stroke is insane at 33.5. Tuning will be more problematic than a guy with 28.5. Fixed heads are gonna exaggerate your problems. Just the length of time it takes to get an arrow out of your bow alone is exaggerated. Me personally having never really shot expandable heads due to legality in Idaho but this year it’s legal I’m settling on sevr 1.5 they fly great. I’m not worried about penetration my arrow is 540 grains going 270 plus. Your in an even better situation the benefits of long draw definitely out do the negatives.

After talking to Synder on the phone I decided to go with Sevr rather then going down to 200 spine this late in the year. I will probably change over to x impacts 200 after the season. I’m excited to try the mechanicals for the first time this year.

 

[5MilesBack]

I don't know how I missed this thread until now, but.......I shoot 75lbs and my draw is currently at 32 7/8". All my arrows are cut at 30" carbon to carbon and I use a QAD HDX rest. I've used .200 spine GT Kinetic XT's but they aren't all that durable. I'm currently using Victory RIP TKO Elite 250's with 75gr brass HIT's and 125's. They shoot very well at long range, even with my Exodus fixed blade heads. If I needed a .200 spine I'd use Sirius Apollo 200's as they are much more durable than the Kinetics. I currently have some Apollo 250's as well as I don't need 200's. I've never been a fan of 4mm arrows and their components, but I love 5mm and HIT inserts.

It appears to me that you just need to do some BH tuning. I prefer BH tuning at 60 yards because how much you're off shows up very well, and even small adjustments show immediately.

 

[I hunt_dm3]

With my rest set to 13/16 off riser I am about 3 inches to the right at 20 yards. If I move it out to 15/16 I am only about 2 but my sight is maxed out. I had the same issue last year and I started BH tuning too late in the year so I sighted in to my BH and didn’t worry about FP. I only have a 18-1 target so there is no way I can shoot 60 and still hit the target. I’d be lucky to hit it at 40. The whole ordeal has really taken the fun out of archery for me, I’m excited to try the mechanicals, hopefully everything flys true.

 

[ddd-shooter]

With my rest set to 13/16 off riser I am about 3 inches to the right at 20 yards. If I move it out to 15/16 I am only about 2 but my sight is maxed out. I had the same issue last year and I started BH tuning too late in the year so I sighted in to my BH and didn’t worry about FP. I only have a 18-1 target so there is no way I can shoot 60 and still hit the target. I’d be lucky to hit it at 40. The whole ordeal has really taken the fun out of archery for me, I’m excited to try the mechanicals, hopefully everything flys true.

Hopefully the mechanicals get you through this year, but stick with trying to get better arrow flight.
Next year, start earlier. Once you figure out what you need, you will be SO much better equipped to continue bow hunting.
ALL the great bow hunters I know have struggled through a period like you’re having. When it finally clicks and your bow is shooting darts, you’ll have the fever like never before. Then you’ll be set to continue your journey.
There are no free lunches in wisdom, experience, or passions. Listen to podcasts, watch tuning videos and LEARN.

 

[Muskykris]

With my rest set to 13/16 off riser I am about 3 inches to the right at 20 yards. If I move it out to 15/16 I am only about 2 but my sight is maxed out. I had the same issue last year and I started BH tuning too late in the year so I sighted in to my BH and didn’t worry about FP. I only have a 18-1 target so there is no way I can shoot 60 and still hit the target. I’d be lucky to hit it at 40. The whole ordeal has really taken the fun out of archery for me, I’m excited to try the mechanicals, hopefully everything flys true.

What bow are you shooting? And what sight

 

[LTHisle]

Try French tuning. Check BH. Go back to paper tune if not flying straight.