Load Development

[RockinRam96]

Alright guys, as I have done some searching around and there is a bit on load development. However, I think it is worth the discussion on load development this day in age when components are hard to come by.

In early March 2020, I bought a ton of components as the pandemic hit, everyone started mass purchasing and supplies ran short. I ended up with 8# of Winchester 760 powder, 8# of Winchester 748 powder, 1,000 Winchester WLR primers and 1,000 small rifle primers. At that time the two Winchester powders seemed to be all I could find available and fit worked with all of the calibers of rifles I had at the time (.223 Rem, .270 Win, 6.5 Creedmoore and .300 Savage). Since that time I have added a .303 Savage and a .300 Win Mag to my collection. The .303 Savage was a gun that my great grandfather owned and the .300 Win Mag is for a moose hunt next fall. The I was able to pick up a couple pounds of IMR-3031 and cases for the .303 Savage, which gave me everything I needed to put some loads together.

For the .300 Win Mag, as I am sure some of you know it is virtually impossible to find factory ammo for this. So I am left to handload, which obviously isn't an issue. I was able to order 100 pieces of once fired Norma brass, at what I thought was a reasonable price. Doing some research it looks like the Winchester WLR primers and the Winchester 760 can be a usable recipe for a reload. However, my Lyman or Hornady reloading manual don't have any loadouts for this powder. On the Hodgdon website I was able to dig up a starting loads and max loads. I do have quite a few options for 30 caliber bullets, from 150 grains to 180 grain bullets I have about 4 options.

So, my question is do I start with one bullet option and work my way up from the minimum powder charge to find the powder charge that works best? Then when making bullet changes, start from the minimum recommended charge for that specific bullet?

Obviously, if I had different powder options, I would repeat this process with each powder option, correct?

I do need to pick up a chronograph. Just haven't decided on what is best. Kind of paralysis by analysis. Think at this point I just need to buy a basic, entry level chrono and start using it.

Thanks in advance!

 

[brn2hnt]

I would start with the bullet of best construction for moose regardless of weight and work up from there.

ie a bonded 165gr would be better than a 180gr psp bullet.


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[MallardSX2]

An Indian guide in Ontario I met years ago had killed 25 moose with 27 shots from a 30-30....with Cor-lok bullets.

Dont overthink it.

Just shoot what shoots best out of your gun. You got a lot of power there....Its going to kill every moose youll ever see at a reasonable range given the shot is broadside and you do your part.

 

[Harvey_NW]

What distances are you trying to efficiently shoot? If you're trying to develop a consistent long range load, IMHO you'll need a chronograph and a more in depth approach. If you're trying to develop a good grouping load good to 3-400, I would use a simple old school OCW style load workup. Pick a bullet/powder combo and run either book COAL or whatever optimizes case capacity, shoot groups of increasing powder charges, find a charge window of .2-.3gr that groups well and has consistent POI, fiddle with small seating depth adjustments if need be.

 

[MThuntr]

Get yourself a 180gr bullet (my preference would be Accubond) and work up a load. Is there a better powder for 300WinMag? Yes but it's not worth chasing around when you have 8lbs of the stuff.

A chronograph is not required for load development however it will tell you a lot about your loads and how consistent your loading process is. I had major troubles with the inexpensive chronographs failing to read so I spend the $ on a magnetospeed and have had only 1 failed to read and that was on me.

 

[RockinRam96]

I would start with the bullet of best construction for moose regardless of weight and work up from there.

ie a bonded 165gr would be better than a 180gr psp bullet.


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This was one of my follow up questions. What would be a good bullet for moose (obviously I have some research to do on the bullets I do have).

150 grain Round Nose Soft Point
150 grain Hornady Interlock
150 grain Hornady SST (shot a few whitetail with SST out of my .270 and 6.5 Creedmoor and they have performed great)
150 grain Nosler Accubond
165 grain Sierra HPBT Game King
180 grain Round Nose Soft Point

An Indian guide in Ontario I met years ago had killed 25 moose with 27 shots from a 30-30....with Cor-lok bullets.

Dont overthink it.

Just shoot what shoots best out of your gun. You got a lot of power there....Its going to kill every moose youll ever see at a reasonable range given the shot is broadside and you do your part.

Ha ha this is where I struggle. I am an engineer by profession and a very analytical person. I like to figure it out and the test my assumptions. I guess really I need to choose a bullet and work the load to that bullet. Sounds like experimenting with powder charges.

Hoping to be confident out to 500 yards. Doubt I’ll need it or even take a shot that far, but want to have it.


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[brn2hnt]

This was one of my follow up questions. What would be a good bullet for moose (obviously I have some research to do on the bullets I do have).

150 grain Round Nose Soft Point
150 grain Hornady Interlock
150 grain Hornady SST (shot a few whitetail with SST out of my .270 and 6.5 Creedmoor and they have performed great)
150 grain Nosler Accubond
165 grain Sierra HPBT Game King
180 grain Round Nose Soft Point



Ha ha this is where I struggle. I am an engineer by profession and a very analytical person. I like to figure it out and the test my assumptions. I guess really I need to choose a bullet and work the load to that bullet. Sounds like experimenting with powder charges.

Hoping to be confident out to 500 yards. Doubt I’ll need it or even take a shot that far, but want to have it.


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Look up jbm ballistics calculator. I use the trajectory calculator. Plug in predicted speeds, the bullet of choice, and elevation. Look for a minimum of ~2,009fps and 2,000ft/lb of ke.

That’s the max range for most bullets (excepting berger, eldx, etc) for moose regardless of construction. You need a certain fps for bullets to work as designed, so you can “test” different combos without wasting any powder.

You can through hundreds of simulations to eliminate combinations that aren’t feasible and just generally nerd out on so many different things.


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[Harvey_NW]

The ProChrono is proving itself to be a great budget chronograph, I've got a few hundred rounds through it now and it hasn't missed a reading. Bluetooth app is user friendly and really convenient for keeping data.

Nothing wrong with magnetospeed as far as functionality, but you're essentially wasting components on sporter-medium profile barrels because they affect barrel harmonics and change groups, so on most rifles they're only good for velocity. Optical chronograph gives 2 data points.

 

[RockinRam96]

The ProChrono is proving itself to be a great budget chronograph, I've got a few hundred rounds through it now and it hasn't missed a reading. Bluetooth app is user friendly and really convenient for keeping data.

Nothing wrong with magnetospeed as far as functionality, but you're essentially wasting components on sporter-medium profile barrels because they affect barrel harmonics and change groups, so on most rifles they're only good for velocity. Optical chronograph gives 2 data points.

Thanks for the suggestion…. I love the idea of magnetospeed chronographs, just the nerd in me. But with a chronograph like the ProChrono I can shoot all my guns (rifles with a brake, muzzleloaders) and my bow through it. I have been leaning towards a set up like this.


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[RockinRam96]

Look up jbm ballistics calculator. I use the trajectory calculator. Plug in predicted speeds, the bullet of choice, and elevation. Look for a minimum of ~2,009fps and 2,000ft/lb of ke.

That’s the max range for most bullets (excepting berger, eldx, etc) for moose regardless of construction. You need a certain fps for bullets to work as designed, so you can “test” different combos without wasting any powder.

You can through hundreds of simulations to eliminate combinations that aren’t feasible and just generally nerd out on so many different things.


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Guessing you’re saying 2,000 fps and 2,000 ft-lb of KE on impact at a specific range?

I will check this out.


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[brn2hnt]

Guessing you’re saying 2,000 fps and 2,000 ft-lb of KE on impact at a specific range?

I will check this out.


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Yeah. Most Mfg will say 1800fps to initiate proper bullet expansion, but I like to have a little safety factor in there.


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[MallardSX2]

Whatever blows your dress up. lol

 

[RockinRam96]

Get yourself a 180gr bullet (my preference would be Accubond) and work up a load. Is there a better powder for 300WinMag? Yes but it's not worth chasing around when you have 8lbs of the stuff.

Any suggestions on powders to keep my eye out for?


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[MThuntr]

Any suggestions on powders to keep my eye out for?


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It depends on the bullet honestly. You seem to have primarily 150gr bullets and seem to be leaning toward wanting to shoot those so 760 will be just fine. Win760 is temperature sensitive which is a no-go for me while others say it's a non-issue so to each their own on what they want. SO to avoid my personal preference of avoiding double based ball powder, I'd look for RL16, RL17, RL23, 4831, and H4350

If you were to go to a 180gr or heavier bullet then I'd watch for H1000, Retumbo, IMR7977, IMR8133, RL26, RL23

 

[RockinRam96]

It depends on the bullet honestly. You seem to have primarily 150gr bullets and seem to be leaning toward wanting to shoot those so 760 will be just fine. Win760 is temperature sensitive which is a no-go for me while others say it's a non-issue so to each their own on what they want. SO to avoid my personal preference of avoiding double based ball powder, I'd look for RL16, RL17, RL23, 4831, and H4350

If you were to go to a 180gr or heavier bullet then I'd watch for H1000, Retumbo, IMR7977, IMR8133, RL26, RL23

Aside from temperature sensitivity what makes those powders any better than the Win 760 I have?

Only asking because I have had a tough time knowing what sets one powder apart from another. I have done this over and over again trying to figure out which powder is “best.” No I am sure it comes down to application and what your gun likes best but from a hunting application. How does one determine even where to start.

Oh and I found about half a pound of RL-17 in my cabinet. But haven’t found that referenced in any of my books for 300 Win Mag loads.


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[Harvey_NW]

How does one determine even where to start.

Least temp sensitive, best case density, good velocity.

 

[MThuntr]

Aside from temperature sensitivity what makes those powders any better than the Win 760 I have?

Only asking because I have had a tough time knowing what sets one powder apart from another. I have done this over and over again trying to figure out which powder is “best.” No I am sure it comes down to application and what your gun likes best but from a hunting application. How does one determine even where to start.

Oh and I found about half a pound of RL-17 in my cabinet. But haven’t found that referenced in any of my books for 300 Win Mag loads.


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Those other powders aren't any "better" than 760 when using lighter bullets...760 can exhibit a slightly faster burn characteristic which makes it work well for the lighter bullets. The data suggests that velocities can be similar or slightly slower than IMR4350 using potentially 10-15% less powder by weight at 85-90% load density. That is sometimes a good plan because you get a few more rounds out of a pound of powder. For the 150s that you are considering, the only "better powder" is on the shooter to find a more accurate or consistent load which requires a lot of tinkering with bullets, primers, and powder...enough so that many people don't feel it's a worthy adventure especially as components get hard to find.

My personal preference is to have load densities closer to 100% (often very slightly compressed). For me those loads tend to be more consistent while offering velocities where I want but again your experience will be different and I'm probably completely wrong in my own process

As you go up in bullet weight the faster powder loses favor to a slower powders to the powders I listed to keep things efficient.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I'm probably completely wrong in my own process

I'm wrong with you, lol.

 

[RockinRam96]

Those other powders aren't any "better" than 760 when using lighter bullets...760 can exhibit a slightly faster burn characteristic which makes it work well for the lighter bullets. The data suggests that velocities can be similar or slightly slower than IMR4350 using potentially 10-15% less powder by weight at 85-90% load density. That is sometimes a good plan because you get a few more rounds out of a pound of powder. For the 150s that you are considering, the only "better powder" is on the shooter to find a more accurate or consistent load which requires a lot of tinkering with bullets, primers, and powder...enough so that many people don't feel it's a worthy adventure especially as components get hard to find.

My personal preference is to have load densities closer to 100% (often very slightly compressed). For me those loads tend to be more consistent while offering velocities where I want but again your experience will be different and I'm probably completely wrong in my own process

As you go up in bullet weight the faster powder loses favor to a slower powders to the powders I listed to keep things efficient.

Got it…. See this is something I was never taught or seemed to pick up while reading my reloading manuals (read 3 separate manuals now).

I have always wondered how to get close to that 100% case capacity, bullet seat depth and not over compressing the powder charge.

I would like to experiment with powders/ bullet/ primer combos in my 300 Win Mag and my 6.5 Creedmoor. And save the 760 powder for the couple of nostalgia rifles I have. But as you mentioned, with the scarcity of components, I guess I am tied to what I have. But I do plan on keeping my eye out for available powders.


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[brn2hnt]

Adding on to the burn rate being the primary difference, not only does bullet weight matter, so does case volume, case length, and barrel length.

Short, fat cases with short barrels will be more efficient with a certain powder than the same case with a different barrel, or than the same power in a long skinny cased cartridge.

Some powders are better all rounders than others, but more often than not, reloading is about “as good as possible” not “good enough.”


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