Idaho Motorized Hunting restrictions?

[npm352]

The only way to be sure you will not be effected by ATV poachers is to go where you physically cannot get an ATV.

People do not care about the rule and game wardens would rather sit at highway check stations and ticket people who didn't quite notch the entire section on their deer tag where it says "OCT" or "12."

The rule as it is written is difficult to enforce because a lot of guys will stick a tent on the back of their ATV and can just say they are on their way to a place to camp. Unless caught actually shooting something, no prosecutor would take that on. They should have written the rule that if you have a gun or bow and a tag and are not on the main roads detailed on BLM or USFS travel maps for regular-sized vehicles, you get a ticket....no going in to set up camp or retrieving game. You would still have recreational riders to deal with, but that is part of hunting public land.

Bottom line: don't put laws on the book that you cannot or will not enforce.

 

[Gun&BowSD]

Thanks for all the input guys. You know, it is a confusing law, good intentioned but hard to follow. That being said, ignorance of a law isn’t a defence haha. It’s our responsibility as sportsmen to understand the laws before we roll out. Saw a dude get wrapped up for shooting a deer with a rifle in an archery only area, the sign is really small entering but it is well defined in the regs. Dude probably really didnt know he was doing wrong, but he should have. So if you dont understand, like I didn’t, you make a call to clarify or post a question on a forum to some solid folks to help you out. Thanks for all the help guys! Hopefully somebody can find this down the road and help them too. I hope everybody has a season with great stories and full freezers!

 

[7Bartman]

Frustrating rule for sure. I can tell you first hand it sucks getting up before 5 slowly making your way up the mountain on a bugling bull only to have some a**hats coming tearing up the mountain at 8AM with their crossbows cocked in their lap. Makes me so angry. I do what I can to do get away from these places, but there are some places where it isn't easy to on foot.

 

[sneaky]

Thanks for clarifying IdahoHntr and glad you were able to use the rule to retrieve your bull!

So essentially you just follow whatever land use agencies motor vehicle use plan/map (i.e. MVUM for NF) to determine what roads/trails are open and to what seasons/vehicles they are open to with the added caveat that a road/trail that is not open to full size vehicles is also closed for motorized hunting. Then add the camping/retrieving game exceptions.

It seems like a regulation with good intentions and from what you have experienced is working to improving the big game hunting. It just seems like it is poorly written and confusing and can be legally worked around. For example;

What is considered a full-sized automobile?
Answer: A full-sized automobile is any motorized vehicle with a gross weight in excess of 1,500 pounds.

So a side x side less than 50” wide that exceeds 1500# opens up that trail to motorized hunting for ATV’s and motorcycles as well. Probably not the regulations intent.

Seems to me it would have been clearer to just write the regulation to say motorized big game hunting is legal from any motor vehicle when operating on any open road/trail/track that is open by the respective land use agency to motorized vehicles >50“ in width. Illegal to hunt big game from ANY motor vehicle on any road/trail/track otherwise open to motor vehicles game retrieval language.

IMO, as written it is very confusing and could be subject to different interpretations depending on what warden you ran into. If you are riding in with your camping gear and you saw some animals and stopped and raised your binoculars just to look at them it could be interpreted that you were engaged in the act of hunting and therefore be in violation of this regulation. What if you don’t know the area and are driving here and there on your ATV with your spike camp gear and gun looking for a good spot/area to camp? A warden could say your were actually engaged in the act of hunting and issue you a citation.

It just seems as written this regulation is hard for hunters to correctly interpret and would likewise be hard to enforce. If it is not enforced then it just penalizes the guys like you that are just trying to do it right.

Reading the regulation it also looks like E-bikes would be legal to hunt on the roads not open to hunting due to this regulation?

What is considered a motorized vehicle?
Answer: Idaho statute defines a motor vehicle as
any water, land or air vehicle propelled by means of steam, petroleum products, electricity or any other mechanical power. This includes pickup trucks, jeeps, SUVs, UTVs, cars, three-wheelers, four-wheelers, motorcycles, snowmobiles or other similar vehicles.

Note E-bikes are not included in the list of prohibited motor vehicles.

Horniac

Wrong. It specifically says anything propelled by electricity. Also, tons of areas have year round motorcycle trails. Your interpretation would say that anything less than 50" wide would be illegal to utilize. You just eliminated motorcycles and utvs less than 50". Sorry, but that doesn't fly either.

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[horniac]

I agree that it is confusing and should be listed in a more clear way to avoid any confusion. I think some people riding roads they aren't supposed to, just simply don't understand the rule and aren't trying to do illegal things. All the more reason to read the rules and ask questions before you get into the woods.

As far as E-bikes, I feel like your own quote solves that issue:



If it is powered by any sort of mechanical power it is considered a motor vehicle. E-bikes fall into that category and so are considered motor vehicles. The examples are just examples and not an all inclusive list.

Not that I want to be argumentative as I agree that the list is not all inclusive. I know that that E-bikes are fairly new to the scene but why not just add them to the list if the intent is for them to be prohibited? Based on the fact that they are not specifically included on the list (and more so that they are conspicuously absent from the list), based on current ID statute IMO E-bikes would be legal to hunt off of on any road or trail they are legally permitted to be ridden on;

Motor vehicle does not include vehicles moved solely by human power, electric personal assistive mobility devices, personal delivery devices, electric-assisted bicycles, and motorized wheelchairs or other such vehicles that are specifically exempt from titling or registration requirements under title 49, Idaho Code.

I agree that most hunters are trying to follow the rules and inadvertently break the rules because of them being ambiguous or confusing as written. I am sure this regulation is one that gets violated due to it’s complexity and lack of understanding. I think it is very well intended just poorly written!

Horniac

 

[IdahoHntr]

Not that I want to be argumentative as I agree that the list is not all inclusive. I know that that E-bikes are fairly new to the scene but why not just add them to the list if the intent is for them to be prohibited? Based on the fact that they are not specifically included on the list (and more so that they are conspicuously absent from the list), based on current ID statute IMO E-bikes would be legal to hunt off of on any road or trail they are legally permitted to be ridden on;

Motor vehicle does not include vehicles moved solely by human power, electric personal assistive mobility devices, personal delivery devices, electric-assisted bicycles, and motorized wheelchairs or other such vehicles that are specifically exempt from titling or registration requirements under title 49, Idaho Code.

I agree that most hunters are trying to follow the rules and inadvertently break the rules because of them being ambiguous or confusing as written. I am sure this regulation is one that gets violated due to it’s complexity and lack of understanding. I think it is very well intended just poorly written!

Horniac

The statute you reference is for determining legality of e-bikes on state of Idaho roads and that e-bikes (as long as they meet one of the 3 classifications set out by the state) do not have to be registered as motor vehicles. The state classifies them with bicycles for the most part. The state of Idaho isn't the governing agency at play here though. The trails referenced in this law are on federal government owned lands. The forest service considers all e-bikes to be motorized vehicles ( https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/r5/recreation/?cid=fseprd557285 ). Thus why you see the reading of the law in the regulations stating that anything with a motor is considered a motorized vehicle.

Anytime you use a vehicle of any sort you need to know the laws of the agency who owns the trail you are operating on. It's the same reason you can't pull your four wheeler out and legally just drive it down the highway in Idaho. Just because the four wheeler was legal one place, doesn't make it legal on the next road. Same with e-bikes.

The fish and game information from your original post is correct as far as interpretation of the fish and game hunting law. If it has a motor it is considered motorized and therefore only legal on designated motorized trails. When an e-bike is on forest service land it must abide by all the laws of a motorcycle, except for registration requirements.

 

[horniac]

The statute you reference is for determining legality of e-bikes on state of Idaho roads and that e-bikes (as long as they meet one of the 3 classifications set out by the state) do not have to be registered as motor vehicles. The state classifies them with bicycles for the most part. The state of Idaho isn't the governing agency at play here though. The trails referenced in this law are on federal government owned lands. The forest service considers all e-bikes to be motorized vehicles ( https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/r5/recreation/?cid=fseprd557285 ). Thus why you see the reading of the law in the regulations stating that anything with a motor is considered a motorized vehicle.

Anytime you use a vehicle of any sort you need to know the laws of the agency who owns the trail you are operating on. It's the same reason you can't pull your four wheeler out and legally just drive it down the highway in Idaho. Just because the four wheeler was legal one place, doesn't make it legal on the next road. Same with e-bikes.

The fish and game information from your original post is correct as far as interpretation of the fish and game hunting law. If it has a motor it is considered motorized and therefore only legal on designated motorized trails. When an e-bike is on forest service land it must abide by all the laws of a motorcycle, except for registration requirements.

I agree with your interpretation on USFS land as that has always been my understanding as well. Basically they can only be used where a motorcycle or ATV can be used therefore negating any advantage (other than maybe noise) for hunting from them.

So we have established that they are legal on USFS motorized trails. For purposes of the ID Motorized Hunting regulation in question however, the brochure specifically references the ID statute for determining the classification/definition of Motor Vehicles;

What is considered a motorized vehicle?
Answer: Idaho statute defines a motor vehicle as
any water, land or air vehicle propelled by means of steam, petroleum products, electricity or any other mechanical power. This includes pickup trucks, jeeps, SUVs, UTVs, cars, three-wheelers, four-wheelers, motorcycles, snowmobiles or other similar vehicles.


Although I wasn’t able to find the ID statute referenced above as to what is considered a motorized vehicle, I was able to find the ID statute that defines what is NOT considered a motorized vehicle;

Motor vehicle does not include vehicles moved solely by human power, electric personal assistive mobility devices, personal delivery devices, electric-assisted bicycles, and motorized wheelchairs or other such vehicles that are specifically exempt from titling or registration requirements under title 49, Idaho Code.

Since E-bikes are not a motorized vehicle as defined by ID statute I still see them outside of the scope and purview of the ID MotorIzed Hunting regulation. No different than riding a bike with the added restriction that E-bikes are only legal to use on USFS motorized trails.

If IDFG intends for E-bikes to be prohibited then a simple rewrite of their brochure Q & A would clear up any confusion as in the following example;

What is considered a motorized vehicle?

Answer: For purposes of this regulation, Idaho Fish and Game defines a motor vehicle as
any water, land or air vehicle propelled by means of steam, petroleum products, electricity or any other mechanical power. This includes pickup trucks, jeeps, SUVs, UTVs, cars, three-wheelers, four-wheelers, motorcycles, snowmobiles, E-bikes, or other similar vehicles.


Horniac

 

[Voyageur]

Trying to learn something here and am by no means an authority on this. As @jlaner0408 previously stated: thought I had it figured out but am now second guessing myself.
Just pulled out the ID big game regs and if I'm reading them correctly the motorized hunting use restrictions rule is in effect August 30-December 31 and only applies to certain units (30 of them), not all units across the state.
Is this correct?

 

[horniac]

Trying to learn something here and am by no means an authority on this. As @jlaner0408 previously stated: thought I had it figured out but am now second guessing myself.
Just pulled out the ID big game regs and if I'm reading them correctly the motorized hunting use restrictions rule is in effect August 30-December 31 and only applies to certain units (30 of them), not all units across the state.
Is this correct?

Correct!

Hunt Units with Motorized Hunting Rule
Dates: August 30 - December 31
Units: 29, 30, 30A, 32, 32A, 36A, 37, 37A, 45, 47, 49, 50, 51, 52, 52A, 53, 56, 58, 59, 59A, 66, 66A, 69, 70, 72, 73, 75, 76, 77, 78

Applies ONLY to hunting big game animals, including moose, bighorn sheep and mountain goat.


Horniac

 

[sneaky]

Not that I want to be argumentative as I agree that the list is not all inclusive. I know that that E-bikes are fairly new to the scene but why not just add them to the list if the intent is for them to be prohibited? Based on the fact that they are not specifically included on the list (and more so that they are conspicuously absent from the list), based on current ID statute IMO E-bikes would be legal to hunt off of on any road or trail they are legally permitted to be ridden on;

Motor vehicle does not include vehicles moved solely by human power, electric personal assistive mobility devices, personal delivery devices, electric-assisted bicycles, and motorized wheelchairs or other such vehicles that are specifically exempt from titling or registration requirements under title 49, Idaho Code.

I agree that most hunters are trying to follow the rules and inadvertently break the rules because of them being ambiguous or confusing as written. I am sure this regulation is one that gets violated due to it’s complexity and lack of understanding. I think it is very well intended just poorly written!

Horniac

Electric- assisted being the key words. As soon as you stop pedaling and rely on the throttle only you are on a motorized vehicle and not an electric assist. Ebikes can still be operated on motorcycle trails and ATV trails, that opens up a lot of options. Running them on hiking trails is asking for confrontation.

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[sneaky]

I agree with your interpretation on USFS land as that has always been my understanding as well. Basically they can only be used where a motorcycle or ATV can be used therefore negating any advantage (other than maybe noise) for hunting from them.

So we have established that they are legal on USFS motorized trails. For purposes of the ID Motorized Hunting regulation in question however, the brochure specifically references the ID statute for determining the classification/definition of Motor Vehicles;

What is considered a motorized vehicle?
Answer: Idaho statute defines a motor vehicle as
any water, land or air vehicle propelled by means of steam, petroleum products, electricity or any other mechanical power. This includes pickup trucks, jeeps, SUVs, UTVs, cars, three-wheelers, four-wheelers, motorcycles, snowmobiles or other similar vehicles.


Although I wasn’t able to find the ID statute referenced above as to what is considered a motorized vehicle, I was able to find the ID statute that defines what is NOT considered a motorized vehicle;

Motor vehicle does not include vehicles moved solely by human power, electric personal assistive mobility devices, personal delivery devices, electric-assisted bicycles, and motorized wheelchairs or other such vehicles that are specifically exempt from titling or registration requirements under title 49, Idaho Code.

Since E-bikes are not a motorized vehicle as defined by ID statute I still see them outside of the scope and purview of the ID MotorIzed Hunting regulation. No different than riding a bike with the added restriction that E-bikes are only legal to use on USFS motorized trails.

If IDFG intends for E-bikes to be prohibited then a simple rewrite of their brochure Q & A would clear up any confusion as in the following example;

What is considered a motorized vehicle?

Answer: For purposes of this regulation, Idaho Fish and Game defines a motor vehicle as
any water, land or air vehicle propelled by means of steam, petroleum products, electricity or any other mechanical power. This includes pickup trucks, jeeps, SUVs, UTVs, cars, three-wheelers, four-wheelers, motorcycles, snowmobiles, E-bikes, or other similar vehicles.


Horniac

You're half right. It doesn't matter what Idaho defines them as, unless you're operating on state lands. USFS and BLM take precedence over anything Idaho says and if they say they're illegal, they're illegal on their lands.

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[horniac]

Wrong. It specifically says anything propelled by electricity. Also, tons of areas have year round motorcycle trails. Your interpretation would say that anything less than 50" wide would be illegal to utilize. You just eliminated motorcycles and utvs less than 50". Sorry, but that doesn't fly either.

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Sneaky,

The regulation as written says no motorized hunting on roads that are not open to FULL SIZE vehicles. Not sure where my interpretation makes motorcycles or UTV’s less than 50” illegal. They are already illegal by the regulation if the road is not passable by a FULL SIZE automobile.

The point I was trying to make was that there exist some UTV’s less than 50” wide that exceed 1500# gross weight. By the regulation definition it would be is considered a full size automobile. Since this same UTV can legally travel down a trail only open to 50” or less in width motor vehicles, it would be legal to hunt from even though other full size automobile (i.e. a truck or jeep) would not be since they could not legally drive that trail (too wide). Then since the UTV was legal and not subject to the motorized hunting rule, it would allow all other legal motor vehicles (i.e. let’s say a motorcycle ) to hunt the same trail as well...

Horniac

 

[sneaky]

Sneaky,

The regulation as written says no motorized hunting on roads that are not open to FULL SIZE vehicles. Not sure where my interpretation makes motorcycles or UTV’s less than 50” illegal. They are already illegal by the regulation if the road is not passable by a FULL SIZE automobile.

The point I was trying to make was that there exist some UTV’s less than 50” wide that exceed 1500# gross weight. By the regulation definition it would be is considered a full size automobile. Since this same UTV can legally travel down a trail only open to 50” or less in width motor vehicles, it would be legal to hunt from even though other full size automobile (i.e. a truck or jeep) would not be since they could not legally drive that trail (too wide). Then since the UTV was legal and not subject to the motorized hunting rule, it would allow all other legal motor vehicles (i.e. let’s say a motorcycle ) to hunt the same trail as well...

Horniac

I know for a fact of several motorcycle trails that are open year round in those motorized restricted units and they are useable during the season. Many guys use them to access backcountry hunt areas where they stage from. They aren't roads capable of being traveled by full sized vehicles, yet they are open to two wheel motorized use. They can't hunt on their way in or out, but they are definitely used for access and hauling camp in and out.

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[horniac]

I know for a fact of several motorcycle trails that are open year round in those motorized restricted units and they are useable during the season. Many guys use them to access backcountry hunt areas where they stage from. They aren't roads capable of being traveled by full sized vehicles, yet they are open to two wheel motorized use. They can't hunt on their way in or out, but they are definitely used for access and hauling camp in and out.

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Yes agreed that those motorcycle trails fall under the Motorized Hunting Rule exceptions for packing camping equipment in or out and retrieving downed game. Legal just can’t hunt off your motorcycle on them going to and from camp on them like you said...

Horniac

 

[sneaky]

Yeah, I carry a take down recurve anyways. I couldn't stop, put it together, string it, and shoot something if I wanted to lol

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[IdahoHntr]

I agree with your interpretation on USFS land as that has always been my understanding as well. Basically they can only be used where a motorcycle or ATV can be used therefore negating any advantage (other than maybe noise) for hunting from them.

So we have established that they are legal on USFS motorized trails. For purposes of the ID Motorized Hunting regulation in question however, the brochure specifically references the ID statute for determining the classification/definition of Motor Vehicles;

What is considered a motorized vehicle?
Answer: Idaho statute defines a motor vehicle as
any water, land or air vehicle propelled by means of steam, petroleum products, electricity or any other mechanical power. This includes pickup trucks, jeeps, SUVs, UTVs, cars, three-wheelers, four-wheelers, motorcycles, snowmobiles or other similar vehicles.


Although I wasn’t able to find the ID statute referenced above as to what is considered a motorized vehicle, I was able to find the ID statute that defines what is NOT considered a motorized vehicle;

Motor vehicle does not include vehicles moved solely by human power, electric personal assistive mobility devices, personal delivery devices, electric-assisted bicycles, and motorized wheelchairs or other such vehicles that are specifically exempt from titling or registration requirements under title 49, Idaho Code.

Since E-bikes are not a motorized vehicle as defined by ID statute I still see them outside of the scope and purview of the ID MotorIzed Hunting regulation. No different than riding a bike with the added restriction that E-bikes are only legal to use on USFS motorized trails.

If IDFG intends for E-bikes to be prohibited then a simple rewrite of their brochure Q & A would clear up any confusion as in the following example;

What is considered a motorized vehicle?

Answer: For purposes of this regulation, Idaho Fish and Game defines a motor vehicle as
any water, land or air vehicle propelled by means of steam, petroleum products, electricity or any other mechanical power. This includes pickup trucks, jeeps, SUVs, UTVs, cars, three-wheelers, four-wheelers, motorcycles, snowmobiles, E-bikes, or other similar vehicles.


Horniac

What you keep quoting is from a question and answer on a fish and game pamphlet from years ago. Like I said before, the information given is 100% accurate, but the reference to the Idaho Statute is outdated. If you actually just go to the rule with the most current information on the fish and game website (https://idfg.idaho.gov/hunt/access/motorized-vehicles) it says this:

"A motorized vehicle is any water, land or air vehicle propelled by means of steam, petroleum products, electricity or any other mechanical power." Nothing about a statute.

Not to mention if you look up the actual code for the hunting rule (https://casetext.com/regulation/ida...daho/section-130108411-motorized-hunting-rule) it once again says:

"a. A motorized vehicle shall be defined as any water, land, or air vehicle propelled by means of steam, petroleum products, electricity, or any other mechanical power as set forth in Section 36-202, Idaho Code. (6-30-19)T " Once again, nothing about a statute.

If you can do that much research to try to prove that the rule doesn't apply to e-bikes, you could at least look up the rule itself. In my experience, a person who tries that hard to wiggle their way around the rules usually doesn't do so well when they get caught.

 

[bamagun]

The law wasn't even remotely enforced last year from what I saw. saw multiple atv's and motos behind gates and on trails. A rule is only as good as its enforcement..

If you want to use a Moto to aid your hunting then don't go to a non-moto zone? Seems like a stupid question. I wish this was how the rule was actually written and followed but not even close so I guess not a stupid question...

The law is a joke and totally not enforced come on in and do whatever! But yea there are some intricacies to know if you want to utilize the rules the way they are written to your benefit.

 

[sneaky]

IDFG doesn't have the final say so on trail use on lands that the state doesn't own. This has already been discussed earlier in this thread.

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[LONE HUNTER]

So, just for fun since I like digging up old threads. If I ride my ebike, with all my camping gear on my backpack, rifle cased. Then pedal to a place on a motorized legal single track on forest service land that is currently open per USFS maps, to get to a place to spike camp. Set my camp up, lock my ebike to a tree and then get my rifle out and go hunting via FOOT. And if I don't kill anything after a few days, do the exact reverse of this on the way back to my truck, I should be 100% legal?

 

[Wrench]

In my opinion, yes.