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[Muleyrevive]

Why is Idaho so much behind the curve in management for deer?
I’m new to this forum old member to another.Heard some podcasts from Robby. Liked the messages being delivered.

Idaho is behind the curve in all management of fish to big game. What’s the driving factors for this?

 

[WeiserBucks]

Idaho manages primarily for hunter opportunities vs quality. That is exactly what the majority of residents reply as their priority in the surveys.

 

[Muleyrevive]

Idaho manages primarily for hunter opportunities vs quality. That is exactly what the majority of residents reply as their priority in the surveys.

What’s your opinion on the issue?

 

[WeiserBucks]

What’s your opinion on the issue?

Doesn't matter, the Fudds and the farmers are the driving force behind IDFG management.

 

[Muleyrevive]

Doesn't matter, the Fudds and the farmers are the driving force behind IDFG management.

I have seen that over the years completely, but it sounds like you have given up on change?
I agree IDFG is the single worse.. And ill reinforce it. , but how can we change it??


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[WeiserBucks]

As long as the majority of hunters demand opportunity vs quality, it isn't going to change. Most hunters want to hunt deer and elk every year. As long as that mentality continues there will be a steady harvest of younger animals and quality will be sparse.

If it were managed for quality that would mean monstrous tag cuts and most people would go years without hunting. After the tag cuts we'd have even more people crying for a point system that we don't need or want. Everybody wants to kill a big buck or bull, but they aren't willing sacrifice opportunity to do so, just take a look at the number of two points and does that get killed in the big buck units and people wonder why those units aren't better than they are. Most of the big buck draw units are a reasonably short drive from the Treasure Valley and every Fudd with a gun goes there, shoots a two point and has their 7 kids shoot does.

The new regs are already published when they don't even know the extent of winter kill yet and in some areas it's going to be severe, but, issue tags anyways and kill some more.

 

[Muleyrevive]

Weiser what is Your opinion to fix something?


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[Muleyrevive]

I apologize I didn’t see your entire message


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[WeiserBucks]

My opinion is that I, and only I, should have statewide tags for deer and elk with season dates of July 1 to December 31 and everyone else goes without. If I only harvest one deer and elk each year the numbers and quality would skyrocket. Once there's 220" deer and 390" bulls in abundance in every unit then we can have a discussion about letting others hunt

 

[TheTone]

I didn’t listen to the podcast, where are they so far behind? Should we go back to the supposed good old days when you could buy two buck tags and hunt until December?

 

[87TT]

I like and want to hunt every year I have left. The only people who want otherwise are the ones that have the bucks to hunt different states. They want to cherry pick "big" bucks and bulls at the expense of the rest of us hunters. I hope Idaho never changes. Don't like it don't hunt here.

 

[Westhunt]

I love seeing comments like this. As a utah DWR employee, I constantly hear that idaho has the best deer management in the. I'll tell you from my experience that wildlife management is a lot more complex than it appears. There are a dozen different stakeholders pulling management in different directions, and it usually ends up landing somewhere in the middle. Sorry I don't have more to offer, but I hope you shoot a big buck this year.

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[Backcountry_HDO]

I love hunting every year for multiple species. Something’s gotta change with the mule deer though. I’m in SE Idaho and the winter kill is atrocious.

I’m even content with, as much as I love hunting, we need to close a few units down for a couple years.

We also need to be better at predator management. Many of us don’t do our part on the predator side of things.

As much controversy as antler point restrictions are, in 2007 the outdoorsman released an article on unit 70 and 73 were going to go to (4point or better) after doing that for a couple years and then turning both units into “trophy draw units” unit 70 has had some of the biggest bucks come out of Idaho in recent years as well as 73 (although it has severely declined in quality) and is more of a disappointment in a unit stature now but that partly comes from predator management and poaching. You’d be surprised how many hunt the unit without the proper tag. A Fish and game officer (I won’t say who) told me they had checked 30 people without a proper tag for the unit and 10 of which had killed on the opener in 22’. He’ll one guy shot 2 bucks last year one of which went 211” and the other 171” and the local told authorities “I don’t need no tag I’ve been hunting this area for 20 years.”

Sorry for the derailment, but thought it was appropriate for the deer management subject.

 

[Travis Hobbs]

Idaho is extremely far behind on current management practices compared to many of its neighbors. It’s for a number of reasons, but it is concerning.

You can argue opportunity vs. quality…. I like what Idaho does to ensure opportunities…..but when it comes to sound management practices, Idaho is running behind. Especially with Mule Deer

Here are a few examples.

1) GPS Collars- right now in most of the hardest hit winter range, IDFG barely has a collar on adult female mule deer. This is embarrassing. Wyoming/Utah/Colorado all have up to date information on survivability, IDFG doesn’t have a clue. To top it off, they were catching deer in JANUARY via helicopter to collar the handful of fawns they have. They are the only agency that I know that would do this. Other agencies collar late fall or early spring, not IDFG.

2) Tags before winter??? Idaho is the only state I am aware of selling tags a calendar year before the season. How can you sell tags to non residents before you even know winter mortality!? What about a big disease die off, CWD? When you issue tags 10 months before season you are setting yourself up for disaster. (Let’s not even go down the rabbit hole of how shitty that “tag sale” is, what a disaster)

3) $19.75 Resident deer tags is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. You can’t buy a box of ammunition for that price. No wonder they can’t afford GPS collars and helicopter time. Compare this number ti neighboring states,

4) Antler Seasons- it’s not a debate, there is scientific evidence there is impact from antler gathering/winter range disturbance. Utah, Wyoming, Colorado and Nevada have all figured it out, not Idaho. On the worst winter in 20 years, we have “sportsman” gathering antlers (note- finally there is legislation to address this)

5) Migration Routes - again, Utah, Wyoming, Colorado and Nevada have all taken serious steps forward to install overpasses/underpasses in critical migration routes with a large number of highway mortality. Not Idaho. They have been “working” on one site I know of for over 15 years and NOTHING has happened,

…. I’m going to stop as I’m getting pissed thinking about it….

 

[Idahohillboy]

I agree with everything here except I do like the opportunity... I think Idaho could manage better for deer in sheer fact alone they cater more to elk. I have had numerous spots over ran with elk and seen deer get pushed out. I think if they were to make a two point points or less youth only rule it would help as well. Replace some rifle tags with archery less deer being killed. Maybe manage deer tags and cut them after a hard winter. I think Idaho is behind the curve. Colorado does a pretty good job of making it quantity and quality from what I see..


However Wieser is right IDAFG does what the ranchers and farmers want they run the board. Its a good ol boys club in there. As well as they want money so greed plays a factor. I think we are headed in the right direction with the non res unit caps and limiting them to certain units. I saw a lot of 150 to 170 deer last year and was really excited for this season until this winter kicked their asss.....

 

[TheTone]

Idaho is extremely far behind on current management practices compared to many of its neighbors. It’s for a number of reasons, but it is concerning.

You can argue opportunity vs. quality…. I like what Idaho does to ensure opportunities…..but when it comes to sound management practices, Idaho is running behind. Especially with Mule Deer

Here are a few examples.

1) GPS Collars- right now in most of the hardest hit winter range, IDFG barely has a collar on adult female mule deer. This is embarrassing. Wyoming/Utah/Colorado all have up to date information on survivability, IDFG doesn’t have a clue. To top it off, they were catching deer in JANUARY via helicopter to collar the handful of fawns they have. They are the only agency that I know that would do this. Other agencies collar late fall or early spring, not IDFG.

2) Tags before winter??? Idaho is the only state I am aware of selling tags a calendar year before the season. How can you sell tags to non residents before you even know winter mortality!? What about a big disease die off, CWD? When you issue tags 10 months before season you are setting yourself up for disaster. (Let’s not even go down the rabbit hole of how shitty that “tag sale” is, what a disaster)

3) $19.75 Resident deer tags is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. You can’t buy a box of ammunition for that price. No wonder they can’t afford GPS collars and helicopter time. Compare this number ti neighboring states,

4) Antler Seasons- it’s not a debate, there is scientific evidence there is impact from antler gathering/winter range disturbance. Utah, Wyoming, Colorado and Nevada have all figured it out, not Idaho. On the worst winter in 20 years, we have “sportsman” gathering antlers (note- finally there is legislation to address this)

5) Migration Routes - again, Utah, Wyoming, Colorado and Nevada have all taken serious steps forward to install overpasses/underpasses in critical migration routes with a large number of highway mortality. Not Idaho. They have been “working” on one site I know of for over 15 years and NOTHING has happened,

…. I’m going to stop as I’m getting pissed thinking about it….

I’ll give my thoughts on a couple of these

3. Tag prices are set legislatively. Do you think the Idaho legislature is in favor of raising resident tag prices because I don’t. The last fee increase the legislature held hostage and forced the access/depredation fee as part of it to help pay more money to farmers. Additionally you can look at another recent bill that died, raises poaching civil penalties, a legislature actually spoke against it saying their constituents wouldn’t be able to afford to poach it passed

4. Antler seasons; are we going to also close open hunting seasons that overlap the antler seasons? I sure see a lot of bird hunters and houndsmen out pounding winter range; I sure hope they don’t bump a deer in the process. I think actually land closures are a much better idea. Regardless they’re an enforcement pain in the butt

5. I’d guess you’re referring to the island park overpass as what has been getting worked on? The active local public resistance to it is ridiculous, but what can we really do with an organized group saying no? There is a highway re-route going on near me currently, it’s taken nearly 40 years and is still being litigated. ITD works incredibly slow and wildlife issues certainly don’t rank as the top priority

 

[eye_zick]

Born and raised in SE Idaho. I quit hunting mule deer in SE Idaho because of the piss poor management.

In my book the absolute number 1 problem with mule deer is lack of quality habitat/access to the quality habitat. Grazing and mule deer don't mix. Dozens of biologists and research papers have been addressing this concern since the 1980s. Your mulies cant make it through a harsh winter when they have subpar fat storage. Heap onto that they can't obtain adequate fat reserves when they are hunted from August 30th through mid November, you know, when they should be bulking up.

Grazing won't change when Idaho's Gov Little is a rancher. I keep a tab on my favorite spots in unit 76. Last year I checked out a "stopover" for mule deer migration. It was grazed down to bare dirt by the sheep in by mid August. Calling the Caribou Nat'l forest, IDFG and nothing changes. No one is accountable.

This is where the piss poor management comes in.

The only thing that's going to give is not having mule deer to hunt.

 

[eye_zick]

The biggest difference between this winter and winter of 2016-17 is the population of mulies we had. This year we went into winter with the population we came out of 2017 with. You think the winter of 17 was bad and deer were scarce. Well now it'll be as if we had two bad winters right in a row.

 

[eye_zick]

Idaho is extremely far behind on current management practices compared to many of its neighbors. It’s for a number of reasons, but it is concerning.

You can argue opportunity vs. quality…. I like what Idaho does to ensure opportunities…..but when it comes to sound management practices, Idaho is running behind. Especially with Mule Deer

Here are a few examples.

1) GPS Collars- right now in most of the hardest hit winter range, IDFG barely has a collar on adult female mule deer. This is embarrassing. Wyoming/Utah/Colorado all have up to date information on survivability, IDFG doesn’t have a clue. To top it off, they were catching deer in JANUARY via helicopter to collar the handful of fawns they have. They are the only agency that I know that would do this. Other agencies collar late fall or early spring, not IDFG.

2) Tags before winter??? Idaho is the only state I am aware of selling tags a calendar year before the season. How can you sell tags to non residents before you even know winter mortality!? What about a big disease die off, CWD? When you issue tags 10 months before season you are setting yourself up for disaster. (Let’s not even go down the rabbit hole of how shitty that “tag sale” is, what a disaster)

3) $19.75 Resident deer tags is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. You can’t buy a box of ammunition for that price. No wonder they can’t afford GPS collars and helicopter time. Compare this number ti neighboring states,

4) Antler Seasons- it’s not a debate, there is scientific evidence there is impact from antler gathering/winter range disturbance. Utah, Wyoming, Colorado and Nevada have all figured it out, not Idaho. On the worst winter in 20 years, we have “sportsman” gathering antlers (note- finally there is legislation to address this)

5) Migration Routes - again, Utah, Wyoming, Colorado and Nevada have all taken serious steps forward to install overpasses/underpasses in critical migration routes with a large number of highway mortality. Not Idaho. They have been “working” on one site I know of for over 15 years and NOTHING has happened,

…. I’m going to stop as I’m getting pissed thinking about it….

I agree with everything you said here.

1. I think the timing of this comes from the new Director. What's worse, having 0 collars or chasing them to get an idea of how bad it is?
2. I hear ya and I agree, but those tags will sell out regardless of the date, right?
4. Idaho should absolutely have a tag and season for shed hunting. How the hell are you going to police it? We cant stop or prosecute poachers. I doubt we can change anything here.
5. As far as I'm aware, the only reason IDFG even studied migration routes in the first place is bc WY went to the FED GOV and got SO 3362 passed. Requiring Idaho to participate.

 

[Customweld]

I’ll give my thoughts on a couple of these

3. Tag prices are set legislatively. Do you think the Idaho legislature is in favor of raising resident tag prices because I don’t. The last fee increase the legislature held hostage and forced the access/depredation fee as part of it to help pay more money to farmers. Additionally you can look at another recent bill that died, raises poaching civil penalties, a legislature actually spoke against it saying their constituents wouldn’t be able to afford to poach it passed

4. Antler seasons; are we going to also close open hunting seasons that overlap the antler seasons? I sure see a lot of bird hunters and houndsmen out pounding winter range; I sure hope they don’t bump a deer in the process. I think actually land closures are a much better idea. Regardless they’re an enforcement pain in the butt

5. I’d guess you’re referring to the island park overpass as what has been getting worked on? The active local public resistance to it is ridiculous, but what can we really do with an organized group saying no? There is a highway re-route going on near me currently, it’s taken nearly 40 years and is still being litigated. ITD works incredibly slow and wildlife issues certainly don’t rank as the top priority

@TheTone has very good points @WeiserBucks and @eye_zick know the game and they also bring up very solid points. @Muleyrevive, I'm not sure if you are from Idaho, but whether any one wants to admit it or not, it all boils down to politics. The Director and Commissioners are appointed by the Governor. The Governor is one of the largest landowners in Idaho.

The large portion of Idaho legislators are farmers/landowners or have some ties to the ag industry. The legislators are beholden to Idaho Farm Bureau. If you want to know how they are going to vote, this handy little book will tell you. Fish and Game stuff starts at about page 26 . There were under/overpasses proposed 2 years ago, but legislators thought they were part of the UN's Agenda 21 goal. (This is no joke btw) So they were dead set against them
https://www.idahofb.org/media/2vbhkgwp/2023-policy-book.pdf
On to the next topics;
Elk. The elk population has exploded in areas that historically didn't have elk (not many anyway). These wintering elk herds are huge. I'm not a biologist, so don't know how well mule deer tolerate elk. I have read that they don't tolerate them very well at all. I also feel that IFG spends an incredible amount of time managing these elk herds, because of the referenced hand book above.

Habitat. Every year we see thousands of acres of ground lost to wildfire. The cheatgrass repopulates very well, but deer browse is lost for decades. Encroachment of man is pushing into winter ground every year. The deer population will only rebound to the carrying capacity of quality wintering ground.
Winter feeding is also frowned upon, as referenced in the book above.

Hunting. Surveys are done every few years to gauge what Idaho hunters want. As the other guys above stated, they want opportunity over quality. I don't think that is ever going to change.

These are my simple observations:
Every hunter says they want to help the deer out. How often do you see the insta-hunters posting a grip and grin with a burlap bag of bitterbrush seedlings or a roll of ancient barbed wire from an old section fence?
How many folks are out there on the hillside on the first 70 degree Saturday planting or cleaning water troughs?
How many vote for the candidate just because they have a certain letter behind their name? Having a super majority, no matter what side of the aisle is not good. Having legislators (especially this new crop in Idaho) have more say in wildlife management is a horrible idea.