Hunting with LPVO?

[abnorm]

I’m looking for people’s experience with hunting with lpvo’s. More specifically in low light/poor lighting conditions. I know with more magnification the darker the image but would something like a 1-10x28 make early morning/end of day shot with an animal say at a tree line 500 yards away tough enough to see to where you can’t take a clean ethical shot. I’m considering a mid tier lpvo for a lightweight compact hunting rifle build this spring but I’m concerned with the small objective lense.

 

[Marbles]

I had a NF NX8 1-8 for a while. Visibility was not great, in overcast conditions I could not make out antlers on deer at 209 yards, and I could see them clearly with my 8x42 Zeiss Conquest binoculars.

It can certainly be done, but would not be my choice.

 

[jaredg]

X2 above. Swar 1-6X28? (I think, it was a Z6). Anyway, terrible low light optic.

 

[justinspicher]

I have a NF NX8 1-8x and don’t have any issues, even low light.

I’ve shot critters from prairie dogs to turkeys to coyotes to deer with no issues.

I’d recommend giving it a go and seeing if it works for you.

 

[hereinaz]

Objectively, a bigger objective should be your objective.

28 mm vs 42 if the glass quality is the same will have differences in the view. It’s science. Bigger objective more light transmission.

Subjectively, it depends on your eyes and conditions.

 

[hereinaz]

I have a NF NX8 1-8x and don’t have any issues, even low light.

I’ve shot critters from prairie dogs to turkeys to coyotes to deer with no issues.

I’d recommend giving it a go and seeing if it works for you.

Justin has the eyes and speed of a peregrine falcon. He is an outlier.

 

[RockAndSage]

I’m looking for people’s experience with hunting with lpvo’s. More specifically in low light/poor lighting conditions. I know with more magnification the darker the image but would something like a 1-10x28 make early morning/end of day shot with an animal say at a tree line 500 yards away tough enough to see to where you can’t take a clean ethical shot. I’m considering a mid tier lpvo for a lightweight compact hunting rifle build this spring but I’m concerned with the small objective lense.

OP, I've owned just about the best low-light performance LPVO out there, and loved it - Swarovski Z8i 1-8.
And...a Leupold VX6HD 3-18x42 was notably better in low light than the Swarovski. Largely because of what @hereinaz just said.

There's all sorts of wizardry with glass quality, coatings, etc, but two of the biggest factors in low-light performance are how much light hits your eye, and whether or not you can use the reticle in the given lighting.

On the light part, we're talking about the "exit pupil" - it's the focused beam of light hitting your eye. You want 7-8mm, as a healthy human eye maxes out in dilating its pupil about that wide. Any bigger of an exit pupil from the scope, and the light's not usable - any less, and you are just getting less signal for your eyes to use. You calculate exit pupil by taking the objective diameter, and dividing it by the magnification you're on. So, a 28mm objective, with an LPVO on 4x, would give you an exit pupil of about 7mm. That means you max out your functional magnification right there - any higher, and you get a smaller exit pupil, and a dimmer experience.

A 42mm objective gets you up to about 6x. And, a 56mm objective allows you to crank the power up to about 8x magnification, and still get an exit pupil of about 7mm.

Better glass and coatings help, but at the end of the day, exit pupil is the key metric, and that's a function of objective diameter and the magnification you're willing to accept.

With reticle...I won't hunt without an illuminated reticle of some kind. It's that big of an issue, to me, and that's not just for low-light. The key thing to look for though, is one with a small dot in the middle, or a tiny bit of crosshair illumination, preferably one that can go dim, so that it doesn't washout and overpower your eyes' night vision. Having the entire reticle illuminated is not preferable for hunting.

First Focal Plane scopes have their reticles getting bigger or smaller as the power magnification is adjusted. Many are practically useless at 1x or 2x, especially when they have thin lines, and even moreso when hunting in dim light, and even moreso beyond that when they are LPVOs with high magnificaiton ranges. 1-10x being the worst.

Almost all of your top "night hunting" scopes out of Europe are second focal-plane, with very large front, objective lenses.

As to a general hunting scope, LPVOs can work, but they're largely popular because of their broad utility in tactical applications - they're not best for CQB, and they're not best for distance work. But they are excellent for everything in between, and can work well enough at the far ends of that spectrum in most situations. I would not recommend an LPVO for hunting - you just don't get anything out of the 1x, but you lose out on not having a better high-end mag setting. A 2-10, 3-15, 4-16, etc - all of those will give you a far better experience in hunting conditions over an LPVO. The only time I'd recommend an LPVO for hunting would be dangerous game, or if you were literally allowed only 1 rifle, and needed it to do absolutely everything, including defending your home.

 

[nm.otter]

A 42mm objective gets you up to about 6x.
...
Better glass and coatings help, but at the end of the day, exit pupil is the key metric, and that's a function of objective diameter and the magnification you're willing to accept.

SWFA 6x42 MQ Gen2 has proven to be surprisingly effective in low light. Not something I was actually shopping for, but neat.

An affordable, reliable 4x28 or 5x35 would be shorter, lighter, less expensive -- and a better fit for 400 yards and in.
Put one of of those a .223 and go have fun.

 

[justinspicher]

That’s some pretty sound advice from @RockAndSage, but…..

I would argue that it’s very person dependent on their eyes and their capacity.

The only way to know if it will actually work for you is if you try it for yourself.

 

[RockAndSage]

SWFA 6x42 MQ Gen2 has proven to be surprisingly effective in low light.

That math makes a lot of sense. And with fewer lenses and other stuff inside for variable-power movement, I imagine that helps with a brighter image eve if it's not premium HD glass or whatever, and it's going to be a lot more durable and reliable. Sounds like a pretty good hunting sweet-spot.

 

[Chris in TN]

I absolutely think some people have better eyes than others - but mine are terrible, so bring on the big objectives, if I'm hunting near dark, especially in the woods.

I mean honestly a typical 40mm objective with good modern coatings is fine for all but the worst light conditions, but I personally don't want to go lower. I've shot deer with smaller objectives, I have a 1.5-4.5x20(?) that I've been hunting with off and on for 35 years now, but it kinda stinks in low light. There's a reason the old German scopes were 8x56.

 

[RockAndSage]

That’s some pretty sound advice from @RockAndSage, but…..

I would argue that it’s very person dependent on their eyes and their capacity.

The only way to know if it will actually work for you is if you try it for yourself.

Definitely agree. This burned me with a Holosun RDS a few months back - have always used Trijicons, with only a tiny bit of non-perfect circularity in the dot from a little astigmatism. Didn't even think to question whether or not it would be any different with Holosun or other better-regarded brands. Ordered it online, and when I actually tried it, the green dot had so much bloom to my eyes that it was a blob of unusability, even on the dimmest settings.

 

[North of 60]

Rock and Sage explained it well...and I also really like an LPVO with a tiny, crisp red dot for short range hunting - say 100 yds and under.

 

[Rock’N Tacos]

It is doable for me. I have a credo 1-6 that will take me to last light just fine. Most larger objectives will take you well past legal shooting light. YMMV…

 

[coyotekilla]

Pretty green with lpvo's. Didn't really see the point. Have 1 ( sig tango msr 1-6) on a 6.5 grendel braced pistol, hit steel at 500m and deer at 120, so it worked. Seems best suited for close and fast work, but can tackle med range if necessary

 

[RockAndSage]

I would argue that it’s very person dependent on their eyes and their capacity.

I have a credo 1-6 that will take me to last light just fine.

Something else that just crossed my mind, is location and terrain matter in terms of last legal shoot light. What's going on in a flat, open place in the south at sunset can be dramatically different from what someone experiences in steep, forested, mountains further north, including just on which side of the mountain you're on. Aiming out across the open vs trying to peer deep into dim, forested shadows, etc.

 

[Rock’N Tacos]

Something else that just crossed my mind, is location and terrain matter in terms of last legal shoot light. What's going on in a flat, open place in the south at sunset can be dramatically different from what someone experiences in steep, forested, mountains further north, including just on which side of the mountain you're on. Aiming out across the open vs trying to peer deep into dim, forested shadows, etc.

Mine is mostly sage brush hills in idaho.

 

[hereinaz]

The only way to know if it will actually work for you is if you try it for yourself.

This^^^^

 

[HairyScandinavian]

I tried a bunch of LPVO's and cost me a lot of hogs. Even with the bright white spotlight on them I had trouble picking them out from the background. I don't own any anymore.

 

[Bugs284]

I plan on hunting with a vortex razor hd ii-e 1-6. I already bought it just haven't been able to hunt with it yet. I mounted this optic on a ruger no 1. I know its very peculiar and probably the only no 1 in this configuration. Im fairly young but love wood stocks and blued steel, Im not really interested in the synthetics. Before I bought an optic I was doing a lot of research and the common theme I was seeing was that you needed an optic with a lot of eye relief on a no 1 or you would really be stretching your neck. There also isn't a lot of ring options out there for a no 1 either. The vortex fit the bill with a 30mm tube and 4 inch of eye relief.

I know this scope is well liked in the tactical community and while I always thought vortex was mainly marketing focused I do think the glass is good. I have tested it out in my back yard and thought that I was able to see decently through it right before sunrise, I know that I will have to keep the magnification down to keep the imagine brighter. One note is when I was testing it prior to sunrise it was not in wooded cover that would be blocking even more ambient light.

I also never really plan on shooting an animal past 200yds and 300yds is my probably my absolute hard cut off.