Help with tuning whisker biscuit

[3Rayz]

I've been trying to tune my carbon element g3 through paper with a whisker biscuit, I keep getting a high tear no matter where I move my nock point or adjust my rest. Anyone have any advice on what I'm doing wrong? Shooting carbon express maxima hunters 350 with quick fetch vains

 

[Wapiti66]

I had a whisker biscuit and was always trying to tune it through paper, with less than perfect results no matter what I did. The thing that worked the best was taking the rest off, buying a rip-cord fall-away and watch my groups tighten. Some people say they can get WBs to tune through paper, I couldn't ever get it tuned perfectly. Also enjoy not ripping my fletchings off near as often with the fall-away, my WB was hell on fletchings. Good luck with your problem, I had the same problem and finally gave up on the rest.

 

[RosinBag]

The easiest way to tune it, is to throw it away.... You have a state of the art carbon bow and have the cheapest non tune able rest bolted to it. Drop a $100 and buy a good rest.

 

[Whisky]

You find the answer, let me know. Couldn't get them to tune on a Spyder 34 or CST. Fought it last year. Thought I learned my lesson. Tried it out again when I picked up my CST on Saturday. Two shooters, high tears, no matter what we did.

 

[Whisky]

throw it away....

I'm starting to come to that conclusion as well....Some of us are slow learners....or stubborn.

 

[Coyote Commander]

Dont get hung up on having "perfect" tears.

Get it close and go shoot broadheads. If broadheads and field points group together, who cares how it tears.

Ive never not been able to get good tears with a biscuit out of half a dozen different Mathews and two Elites now. But, if I go back and shoot paper after broadhead tuning I often find my "perfect" tears arent quite "perfect" anymore, not bad mind you, just not "perfect". As long as broadheads are doing what they're supposed to though, I could care less how it looks through paper.



I notice a lot of carbon Hoyt shooters are having problems with getting biscuits to tune. One more reason to NOT shoot a Hoyt!

My THEORY, is that these new ultra-light, short, carbon bows are just EXTREMELY touchy to very small amounts of torque and are easier to impart torque into due to their low mass, thus, they're very tricky to get paper tuned at that typical 6-10 foot paper tuning distance. After that, the fletching takes over and stabilizes everything and its all good. And yes, the biscuit also augments small amounts of torque as well. Put them together.......and, you got a rig that will probably be inconsistent in showing "perfect" tears.

 

[spdcrazy]

maybe i'm old school (even tho 25 years young) but the end goal is to make a clean ethical shot correct? so if your groupings are good, and the bow has sufficent force behind it. (assuming broadhead is of quality and bow is up to the lbs's needed for the animal targeted), why should we be worried about perfect tears?

i assume if we can get the arrows to fly a bit more stable we would gain a bit of speed and possibly make it a touch better at grouping.

let the flaming begin

 

[str_8tup]

Wicker Baskets are a good rest in some situations! For kids and guys are starting off its a great rest. But, a carbon bow and the performance it is putting out there must be a drop-away rest on that bow Whisky. Like i said before it would take away all your headaches. I too don't care about perfect tears but this tear was outside of the fletchings. To me thats too much. I'm fine with tears "within" the vanes. Also dependant on broadheads selection, fixed or mechanical, this makes a big variation as well!

Make it easy on yourself and put on a drop-away. Everyones concern is there are more moving parts. Well in all reality if tied correctly and check the screws on your rest you will NEVER have an issue with any quality drop-away rest and there are alot of good ones out there!

 

[RosinBag]

The idea of clean arrow flight is to have better groups. If you start out with poor arrow flight , screw on a Broad head that is going to try and steer the arrow from the front while the back isn't steering well, leads to terrible broad head flight. Better flight, better groups, better penetration, and much more confidence. That is the why we care about it.

 

[Coyote Commander]

Well in all reality if tied correctly and check the screws on your rest you will NEVER have an issue with any quality drop-away rest and there are alot of good ones out there!

Never ever say never.

 

[Whisky]

I notice a lot of carbon Hoyt shooters are having problems with getting biscuits to tune. One more reason to NOT shoot a Hoyt!

My THEORY, is that these new ultra-light, short, carbon bows are just EXTREMELY touchy to very small amounts of torque and are easier to impart torque into due to their low mass, thus, they're very tricky to get paper tuned at that typical 6-10 foot paper tuning distance. After that, the fletching takes over and stabilizes everything and its all good. And yes, the biscuit also augments small amounts of torque as well. Put them together.......and, you got a rig that will probably be inconsistent in showing "perfect" tears.

Well, my Spyder 34 is 6.6 lbs with 34" ATA...The CST is 6.1 with 33" ATA....Not exactly the lightest set ups, and certainly not what I would consider short.

But it might be a Hoyt thing, somebody with more bow intellect then me would have to figure it out. Maybe like the Smackdown Pro and bareshaft tuning, the nock travel with the Hoyts doesn't allow a good tune with biscuits? All I know is my last two bows have been a bitch, and I tried to BH tune with the Spyder last year before giving up on the biscuit, but results were shit. Not even going to attempt BH tuning with the CST.

 

[str_8tup]

Coyote Commander, your right, but most of the issues on drop-away rest are self induced. I can't emphasize enough how many bows get brought into my shop where if the screws are not loose you can break them loose with very little torgue. The serious bowhunter will always be checking and then double checking screws on equipment.

We could ask some guys to chime in on this convo that bowhunt several months out of the year that probably haven't had an issue with a drop-way rest yet. I think there are other issues that may happen before an issue occurs with a rest.

 

[Coyote Commander]

I absolutely agree with you str_8tup. 99% of any equipment "issue" is usually user caused.

I stood next to a guy in the woods that was going to draw on a coyote (hardly the animal of a lifetime, but it could have been), well, he jerky jerked it back and the arrow popped off the rest. Luckily, I was standing nex to him and put it back on the rest for him. He than went on to miss the coyote at 13 yards. Had he drawn smoothly, probably never would have happened. His fault, but it wouldnt have happened with a biscuit.

I do however know a guy that never got to take a shot at a nice bull elk due to a drop away failure that I believe was not user caused at all and was 100% a mechanical failure at the wrong time. That would be a tough pill for this guy to swallow.

Im just a student of Uncle Murphy. If its going to go wrong, it will at the most inopportune moment.

So much, I was ten years behind everyone else picking up a release. Just for the "its a mechanical device that could fail" reason. Ive never had one fail, but I know of one that had issues during a 3-D shoot, and another guy that ended up with a broken trigger in the backcountry last year. Both too were "user" faults that caused them, but, user faults happen in the real world too and need to be taken into some consideration.





I still believe the whisker biscuit performance on these carbon bows has something to do with the nature of the carbon bows, personally I think it goes back to the low mass weight, maybe a balance thing with accessories mounted. Prior to these styles of bows being the big thing, you only ever heard the standard biscuit complaints, "it robs speed", "its not as forgiving", "it wrecks fletching", blah blah blah. Rarely did you hear "it wont tune". Now with these bows, you hear the "it wont tune" complaint an awful lot.

 

[str_8tup]

There are many great drop-aways on the market that are full containment which would eliminate your buddies problem. Unforntunately there are a lot of bows on the market today that will not tune perfectly with any rest, again specially whisker biscuits. I honestly don't think it has anything to do with how light the bows are or balance. A biscuit causes a high tear because the arrow it's getting pushed into the whiskers that have no give and if continued to shoot a bow with a high tear you will see the bottom part of the biscuit start to wear the black brissles out.

 

[Coyote Commander]

So what causes it? Is it a high speed thing? Is it confined or more likely in cam styles that are difficult to get level (or straight) nock travel out of?

Why is it a problem now, whereas a few years ago nobody had a problem with it, or at least, it was rarely a problem?

Ive never owned a carbon bow or worked on one, so ive never experienced this problem. I have tuned biscuits on a pile of single cams, a few cam and a halfs, and am now shooting binary's, and I have never ever had a problem getting good tears with a biscuit, as long as the shooter did their part.

 

[str_8tup]

I'll be honest, i'm not exactly sure. We would have to ask the engineers at some of the bow companies. Could be a number of things but again i'm not sure so i would be guessing if i were to say!

 

[KMT]

I have had two bows in 12 years, and still have both bows. One has a whisker biscuit and one has a drop away. I have never spent even 1 minute paper tuning either bow. Frankly, I don't see the point in doing it. Yet, both bows shoot well enough to kill deer and elk, and both put broad heads in the same place as field tips.

 

[RosinBag]

I am no engineer, but an educated guess is that the arrows dynamic spine is controlled. When the arrow is released, it immediately starts flexing, dynamic spine, when this is constricted, my guess is the arrow acts differently. The arrow really needs to just be supported the first 3-5" of travel and it is on its path. The whisker biscuit is designed for ease if use on short range targets. It simply lacks adjustability. I think anytime your dl etching has to travel through something it is highly problematic. Do they work yes, do they work well, no. Just my opinion though.

 

[Lukem]

Why is it a problem now, whereas a few years ago nobody had a problem with it, or at least, it was rarely a problem?

I'd wager it has as much to do with people being more aware of tuning as anything. People didn't know their bow was out of tune until the internet told them.

 

[bz_711]

I knocked WB for years, but had never tried one. When I noticed many of the top guys in the industry actually had them on their hunting bows - I thought I'd give one a try...don't think I'll ever go back.
The majority of those that suffer tuning issues with WB, will never get a clean tear shot after shot after shot from any rest...mostly due to being "seasonal" archers and having inconsistent grip. I have paper tuned to the point of exhaustion over the years, and one thing I've learned, is that within about 3 arrows I can make any bow/rest shoot a bullet hole just using my grip and not moving any rest/knocks. Hunting conditions typically don't allow time for perfect form.

At the end of the day, your setup just has to be right between your ears - nobody elses. Do what makes you confident. The WB lets me know I can stalk with my bow in any position and the arrow does not budge, the rest has proven ultra consistent for shot after shot...and that long range accuracy is no issue either. Drop away rest, and prong style rests are very accurate also - for me, its just the WB offers the combination of all the things I'm looking for.

Regardless, getting into a habit of shooting a least a little year round will help IMO...and shooting a lot each time is not necessarily good. I shoot 1 or 2 arrows most days - which is way more than I shoot on most typical days of hunting. Heck, some guys still shoot a wooden arrow off a carpet shelf and seem to do just fine bringing down animals - don't forget to have fun!