Gels when running

TxxAgg

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It's because you're running too fast. If you slow down (way down) you'll be able to run twice as far and it will feel easy. It will keep your heart rate under 150ish
 
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mtwarden

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I have since bought a garmin chest strap and it confirmed that my watch is actually pretty accurate, shockingly. Not sure why my average HR when running is so high. My resting HR is in the 50s.
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you (anyone) would benefit from pursuing Uphill Athlete's site; since you already have a chest monitor you can dive right in

the lions share of your aerobic training (assuming you're wanting to build a solid base) should be in Zone 2, not zone 5
 
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WoodBow

WoodBow

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It's because you're running to fast. If you slow down (way down) you'll be able to run twice as far and it will feel easy. It will keep your heart rate under 150ish
Well, yea. I guess i just mean that i don't feel like it should be that high. Not the first time i have been wrong! I bought the chest strap specifically to make sure i was getting accurate data and then start playing with letting HR control my pace. I think that i can manage to slow down if im basing it off something.

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WoodBow

WoodBow

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you (anyone) would benefit from pursuing Uphill Athlete's site; since you already have a chest monitor you can dive right in

the lions share of your aerobic training (assuming you're wanting to build a solid base) should be in Zone 2, not zone 5
Planning to start playing with it. It is just so counterintuitive to run slower.

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mtwarden

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I agree- it seems counterintuitive; but the research (and results) back it up thoroughly

the co-author of their last book is Killian Jornet, he's all in on Zone 2 training- he's set two 100 mile course records, these on arguably the two toughest 100 mile races :)
 

Marbles

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I have since bought a garmin chest strap and it confirmed that my watch is actually pretty accurate, shockingly. Not sure why my average HR when running is so high. My resting HR is in the 50s.
1a0139af37f7a92a00e350ba7cff97e3.jpg
37ad6eb6b86117cdad815aa2c0302880.jpg


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There is a lot of individual variation in HR. My zone 2 is 140 to 154 BPM, my lactate threshold is 183, and that puts 180 as feeling pretty comfortable for me. I can still speak in phrase in the 190s. My max is north of 200. None of that is really bragging, because I'm still slow. If you think of it as RPMs on an engine, my redline is just higher, but I also need to run higher to put out power. There are some Olympic athletes with max HRs on the 160s, they are like a diesel, turning out lots of power in low RPMs but with a low redline too.

So, HR is really just a guide for an individual (assuming they have ran tests to measure max and lactate threshold). The 220 minus age formula is close to worthless.

Your resting HR and feeling good at the high rates says the high values are normal, as opposed to something like inappropriate sinus tachycardia.

Slowing down has put me running further than ever before without injury. Considering that I have had repeated over training injuries since the military (or for the past 15 years), that is a huge deal for me. Surprisingly, that comes while putting in more miles than I ever have before. Another beauty of zone 2 training is being able to cover long distances without food, personally I've not gone further than 24 miles without eating, but I think the snack was mental and not needed physically.

Up Hill Athlete is a great resource, enough so that I subscribed to Training Peaks.

Sorry to beat a dead horse.
 
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WoodBow

WoodBow

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There is a lot of individual variation in HR. My zone 2 is 140 to 154 BPM, my lactate threshold is 183, and that puts 180 as feeling pretty comfortable for me. I can still speak in phrase in the 190s. My max is north of 200. None of that is really bragging, because I'm still slow. If you think of it as RPMs on an engine, my redline is just higher, but I also need to run higher to put out power. There are some Olympic athletes with max HRs on the 160s, they are like a diesel, turning out lots of power in low RPMs but with a low redline too.

So, HR is really just a guide for an individual (assuming they have ran tests to measure max and lactate threshold). The 220 minus age formula is close to worthless.

Your resting HR and feeling good at the high rates says the high values are normal, as opposed to something like inappropriate sinus tachycardia.

Slowing down has put me running further than ever before without injury. Considering that I have had repeated over training injuries since the military (or for the past 15 years), that is a huge deal for me. Surprisingly, that comes while putting in more miles than I ever have before. Another beauty of zone 2 training is being able to cover long distances without food, personally I've not gone further than 24 miles without eating, but I think the snack was mental and not needed physically.

Up Hill Athlete is a great resource, enough so that I subscribed to Training Peaks.

Sorry to beat a dead horse.
Very good to hear. Thanks for elaborating. I was indeed basing off of 220 minus. And i didnt have anyone else to compare to. At 180 i can hold a conversation but not in full sentences at a time.

I read a fair bit into testing for your 80/20 metrics. And frankly it was a bit overwhelming. The best take away i got was that the easiest test is the pace at which you can comfortably say the pledge of allegiance.

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WoodBow

WoodBow

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One more thing, when training more in zone 2 do yall notice better conservation of muscle mass? When i was running 5 to 6 miles every day i was bleeding muscle mass. Admittedly i was prioritizing running at the time and was not lifting much. But a big difference between just not lifting and running and not lifting. Im pretty slim to start with. 6 foot and generally 185. I got down to 178 pretty quick running. Definitely lost a little fat but muscle loss was most noticeable.

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mtwarden

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my weight has varied no more than +/- 5 lbs in the last 10 years, still lifting relatively hard twice a week (Wendler), so yeah thinking it doesn’t make you too skinny
 

Marbles

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Very good to hear. Thanks for elaborating. I was indeed basing off of 220 minus. And i didnt have anyone else to compare to. At 180 i can hold a conversation but not in full sentences at a time.

I read a fair bit into testing for your 80/20 metrics. And frankly it was a bit overwhelming. The best take away i got was that the easiest test is the pace at which you can comfortably say the pledge of allegiance.

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You will find that formula everywhere. Even working in Cardiology it is used all the time. Until I saw my own HR go above 200 with a chest strap I did not really think about it.

If anyone wants data to back up disregarding that formula I can try and find the sources I encountered during my research again.
 
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WoodBow

WoodBow

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my weight has varied no more than +/- 5 lbs in the last 10 years, still lifting relatively hard twice a week (Wendler), so yeah thinking it doesn’t make you too skinny
Ok so sounds like i just need to make sure i keep lifting to make sure my body knows that that muscle needs to hang around.

Doing backpack hunts i always notice i lose the most muscle mass from areas not being used much, such as chest and arms. I tend to lose 10 lbs, or close, on a 5 day hunt. Partially due to my lack of appetite at altitude.

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