Decisions Decisions Decisions

[Bwatson]

Now I can finally appreciate why it takes my wife so long to pick out shoes when going out for dinner.
For the past 4 years been shooting Gold Tip XT Hunter 340s with standard insert and 125gr Slick Trick Grizz Trick 2. About 430gr final weight. Hunting whitetails max range 50 yards. Pushed from a 68# PSE Carbon Air around 275fps. Flat shooting and no issues with passthroughs on a few perfect shots but have had 2 deer drop at the shot and hit high. One caught the top of one lung, severed the spinal artery, but got a bit of vertebrae. Barely passed through, arrow fell out on backside as deer ran off. He only went 100 yards or so but the Grizz was pretty mangled by the vertebrae.
Second buck I hit higher and lodged into the spine stopping the arrow with not much penetration. Dropped him on the spot (that Grizz Trick was pretty mangled too) and had to put another one through him. While I found both these bucks easily, just feel uneasy about the penetration and structural integrity of the Grizz Trick. Looking for a setup that can handle the Plan B a bit better if I happen to hit spine again or a femur. Looking at a heavier (not too crazy) setup with a beefier broadhead. So been collecting broadheads, inserts, and arrow shafts (sticking with standard diameter carbon) for the last year+ to try different setups this season.
Top Row all 200gr from left to right:
Valkyrie Blood Eagle, Iron Will Single Bevel (right), Iron Will Wide Solid, Cutthroat Single Bevel (right)
Bottom Row from left to right:
Iron Will Wide Solid (150gr), Magnus Black Hornet (125gr), Magnus Buzzcut (125gr), Tooth of the Arrow XL (125gr), Slick Trick Grizz 2 (125gr)
Insert options from left to right:
Ethics adjustable SS w/ 50gr collar (125-200gr total), Ethics adjustable Alum w/ 50gr collar (80-100gr total), Gold Tip Brass (100gr), Gold Tip Aluminum (50gr), Easton Gold alum (22gr), Easton Std alum (21gr), Gold Tip Std alum (12.5gr)

Setting up two bows:
Setup #1: new for this year 80# PSE Stealth Mach 1 currently set at 75#. Arrows I'm trying are Gold Tip XT Hunters and Easton 6.5mm in 340, 300, and 250 spine and currently playing with length to get get proper flight. Wrap, 3 blazers, and trying nockturnals for the first time this year.
Found I can get the following various setups to tune well.

1. 340spine with std ins and 125s just like last year. Thought this would be too weak but it actually tunes and flies nice. Problem is no upgrade from last year except maybe the Tooth of the Arrows would be more durable than the Grizz Tricks. Also out of the Stealth this is going 310fps so significantly more speed/energy/momentum than the 275fps from the Carbon Air.

2. 300 spine by playing with arrow length I can get 150 IW with 100gr insert or the 200s with 50gr insert to tune. Bumps up to about 560gr and doing 274fps out of the Stealth which is roughly same speed as what I've been shooting the last few years. I think this gives me the most options in head choice and nice balance of weight/speed. Liking the idea of either of the IW Wide Solids. Which would you think is the most durable head/insert setup?
- 150gr head with the 100gr Brass insert?
- 150gr head with Ethics alum insert with collar for 100gr total ins weight?
- 200gr head with GT 50gr alum insert?

3. Or I could RF it with 250 spine, 200gr inserts with 200gr heads and puts me around 700gr but only doing 247fps. Just don't think this is necessary for whitetail even on a bad shot and not crazy about trajectory.

Setup #3: I have 3 recurves (45#, 47#, 50#)
This will be my first year Trad hunting so no firsthand experience with penetration from this setup. So being conservative and only been playing with heavy setups and will keep shots to 20 yards max. 300 spine with 200gr ins and the 200gr broadheads. So broadhead choice would be the only difference. Leaning towards the Valkyrie or IW Single Bevel for this setup. Thinking these are a nice balance of small diameter cut but 3 blade or bleeders for bigger hole than just the 2 blade. I know not as penetrating as the 2-blade but thinking the momentum of the heavy setup makes up for that.

Also playing with some lighter setups with 340 and 400 spine but finding the heavier setup above to give acceptance trajectory at my range so will likely stick with the 300s.

Lots to digest here. Any other suggestions or ideas? TIA.

 

[Beendare]

You

>

 

[Bwatson]

Thanks for the reply.
Yeah I wasn’t really questioning normal penetration of those grizz tricks on good hits. No issues getting full pass-throughs if hitting just ribs or even scapula. I shot 4 other deer with them with no issues. Not shooting elk though I’d love to some day.
The one thing I never liked about the grizz tricks was the blade angle but I did like the big 1.25” cut 4-blade. Blood trails were all great and short. What I did question was the durability when hitting heavy bone like the spine when I had deer drop. Ferrules we’re fine but the blades bent & broke.
All of the options I chose to replace the grizz tricks are either lower blade angle and/or much stronger construction with thicker blades and better steel.
got the magnus for the better blade angle but not crazy about the aluminum ferrule and vented blades. Don’t think I’d have any issues with the IW or Valkyrie with damage. Just seeing if people had preferences.
Guess what I was really asking is which is a more durable setup. Heavy 200gr head with a 50gr aluminum insert, a lighter 150gr head with a brass insert, or aluminum insert with SS collar.
Or if there’s other heads or head/insert combos I should consider as well. Was wanting to try the Tuffhead 3-blade evolution 200gr but can’t ever seem to catch them in stock.
Thanks.

 

[Billy Goat]

You are going to find everyone has preferences.

In the real world you are likely to only find small differences in all of the 2 blade heads. They are all going to out penetrate a 4 blade.


For a tough "cheap" head I keep falling back to Exodus.


Comes down to you just need to settle on what you have confidence in. I use s125's in my stick bows, but tend to use a more economical, larger cutting head in my compounds.


For insert choice I go with SS when I am looking for maximum durability. I have damaged both aluminum and brass on hard impacts.

 

[Beendare]

In rea

 

[Bwatson]

Gotchya. I see where you read into that.
Yeah that’s how mine looked on those 2 but one actually broke a blade.
I was coming from muzzys which I had bent ferrules (aluminum) and broken blades on some hits just to ribs. So the STs were an improvement but still left me feeling there’s something better in the blade department. I bought the magnus but haven’t tried them on game yet.
I took an Internet forum hiatus for a few years so wasn’t aware of some of these newer broadheads with better steel.
I grabbed some of the Tooth of the arrows back in the spring but didn’t like the blade angle when I saw them in person so decided to pick up the Iron Wills. Really digging those. But haven’t shot any broadheads yet from the new arrows. Still playing with fieldpoint weights and getting tuned. Maybe tomorrow I’ll get out and shoot some of the broadheads and see how they broadleaf tune against 200gr field points. Ultimately I’ll choose what shoots best.
So excited for this season. Figured there’s really no bad decision in the ones I’m considering.
Appreciate the responses.
And thanks billy goat. I’ll try cutting down the ethics SS and see if I can make them work at 125gr with the IW 150s.
Good luck to all this season!

 

[Billy Goat]

Top Hat makes a 60 gr. SS insert if that will help you.

 

[Bwatson]

Thanks! I’ll look into those.

 

[Bwatson]

Kind of an update… shot the Valkyrie and IW single bevels from my trad setup. Per the pic, needless to say they fly. This was at 20 yards. Didn’t think I had to worry about hitting arrows at that range with just 2 shots but needless to say they fly great when I did my part. The Valkyrie was the second shot and hit the IW pretty hard. Both heads faired great. Just minor nicks I’ll try to get pics tonight. Either could be touched up, resharpened, used on game.
I will say the Valkyrie was more forgiving when I had less than good form as I got tired. I could see some wiggle to the arrows when I collapsed or torqued with the IW but never saw that with the Valkyrie. Probably not enough to worry about but just an observation. I know it’s on me and not IW but gives a little better feeling about the forgiveness of the Valkyrie. Really did shoot just like field point.
Ordered some Cutthroat 3-blade and VPA 3-blade to try those as well.

 

[cburgin72]

Have you made a final decision ?

 

[loganwayne]

i like the cutthroats ive got the 200 grains on a easton hexx 260 shaft with their 75 grain inserts. that puts me around 550 grains shooting 65 lb bow and have shot 3 deer with this setup since last season started and none ran outta sight.

 

[Bwatson]

For my compound setup I decided on Goldtip XT Hunters with the Ethics 50gr aluminum insert with the 50gr SS collar. I'm going with the 150gr Iron Will Wide Solids. Just a very tiny rest adjustment had them shooting right with field points out to 40 yards (about as far as I can safely shoot in my yard). I just ordered 3 more to fill my quiver and also got some V125/S150 ferrules so that I can try taking the blades out of the 200gr single-bevel heads I have and making 150gr single-bevels. So I may still try those as well.

For the Trad setup I really liked the way the Valkyries shot however I noticed a significant whistle to them in flight with my setup. Wish they made a 200gr non-vented. I did pick up the VPA 3-blades and cutthroat 3-blades and tried them. I will say the cutthroat 3-blades look pretty badass and out to 25 yards shot fine. But I think I'm going with the the VPA 3-blades and the Cutthroat 2-blade single bevels. They both shoot great out of my setup. Shooting into cardboard the VPAs consistently out penetrated the Cutthroat 3-blades. Not by a ton but another layer or 2 each time. So that and for ease of sharpening, the VPA will be my 3-blade head. I bought 3-packs of all of these so I'm thinking I'll put 2 of the VPAs and 2 of the Cutthroat single bevels in my quiver and hit the woods with those. Feeling pretty confident in my equipment, now just have to get some time off work and do my part at the release.