CPW Staff changed it's recommendation, they now support archery OTC for residents

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Dec 13, 2021
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Sure can - im not so poor that I have to live in the midwest.

I want to ensure you cant afford a tag - how much would that take?

What dumpy state do you live in? Are you lobbying for NR fisherman to pay the same fee as you? or? How about the NR people who are dumb enough to buy a mostly useless whitetail tag?

I literally cant wait to make changes to tag prices and allocations. I used to be against outfitters hogging up NR tags - im to the point id like as many as possible going to it so you (put upon NR) either stay on private land or stay home.
You might be surprised what it would take. I know MANY folks that have 10-15k "western hunting budgets" and that doesn't include the "cheap" out of state duck hunting they do in Jan. These are fireman, lineman, sales folks, cops, programmers, farmers....and some "rich guys" Folks in dumpy states take 2-3 vacations a year. Couple of small ones within driving distance and then usually an overseas/Caribbean type trip. If we don't draw a tag Some of us do have to squeeze a bit and just choose not to take the overseas trip and elk hunt......
 

Jaquomo

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So what’s your opinion on the dept’s strategy? Is it all about the money? Or what’s best for the herds? Or more pressure than they could bear from outspoken residents perhaps? (And rightly so I might add) ain’t no way it’s all of the above.
I think it's situational. As Commission members mentioned, the passion by bowhunters was a factor. But revenue is also a concern. They believe revenue will be recovered by keeping OTC rifle, which also helps with management objectives. Archers aren't a management tool. Herd health seems to be less of a concern, except for the dilemma of some DAUs being over objective because so many elk are unhuntable (huge herds.on private refuges). But no season structure change is going to fix that.
 
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Its a win for archers, now we just need to get the tag allocations right. Like others, I wish they would have made everything for NR limited, but that's yesterday's news. One thing that is interesting is you keep hearing herd this, herd that from the commission, but when you start putting timeframes on the calendar, by the time they start thinking about dealing with the pressured rifle seasons, the wolves (and I'm not a Debbie downer on wolves) will be taking a pretty good hold by then which will change the herd dynamics without question. You will be finding more and more elk pushing into the low country (out of reach for most hunters) while the high country historic hunting areas (for the average Joe) will have less elk. In some cases, much less.

Colorado's landscape will look much different in 2029, going into 2030, so much so, they really need to think about eliminating the 5 year structure, and having the ability to make changes on the fly, or make it every 2 years etc.

In the end, its a win for Bowhunters, the CBA, and residents as well as NRs as maybe the overcrowding will lessen a bit. Time will tell.
 
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Its a win for archers, now we just need to get the tag allocations right. Like others, I wish they would have made everything for NR limited, but that's yesterday's news. One thing that is interesting is you keep hearing herd this, herd that from the commission, but when you start putting timeframes on the calendar, by the time they start thinking about dealing with the pressured rifle seasons, the wolves (and I'm not a Debbie downer on wolves) will be taking a pretty good hold by then which will change the herd dynamics without question. You will be finding more and more elk pushing into the low country (out of reach for most hunters) while the high country historic hunting areas (for the average Joe) will have less elk. In some cases, much less.

Colorado's landscape will look much different in 2029, going into 2030, so much so, they really need to think about eliminating the 5 year structure, and having the ability to make changes on the fly, or make it every 2 years etc.

In the end, its a win for Bowhunters, the CBA, and residents as well as NRs as maybe the overcrowding will lessen a bit. Time will tell.
I agree with just about everything you wrote here but I suspect it will take years longer for the wolves to have a significant impact. We only have 11 (or so) at the moment. And several of those will likely be removed due to chronic depredation shortly.
 
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Announced a couple days ago: 6-4 vote by the CPW.

Ranchers can now use night vision to remove wolves in the act of depredation on cattle. Also allowed (by permit) is night vision to kill wolves that are chronic killers of livestock. That means a rancher, for a specific wolf that has been documented killing but not necessarily specifically in the act at the moment, can gain a permit to kill said wolf.

CPW is doing the right thing. As has been said, wolf release was forced down the throats of the CPW by the front range densely populated areas (birds of a feather) that live no where near where the wolves are habitating. Hope they are crying in their fruit flavored seltzer while the ranchers have a shot of whiskey and a well deserved beer.
 
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I agree with just about everything you wrote here but I suspect it will take years longer for the wolves to have a significant impact. We only have 11 (or so) at the moment. And several of those will likely be removed due to chronic depredation shortly.
Thinking about this, maybe they want to get all they can get prior to the destruction? Think about that. Again, not a wolf hater by any means, but if you know your product is going away, or reduced in a serious way, why not maximize now?


Things that make you go “hmmmm”
 

Jaquomo

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They plan to release 15 more wolves this year, and more after that. Pups happen...I believe by 2030, elk hunting and season structures will be very different than today. Some areas will see even more elk staying down low in the giant "North Park" herds on the big ranches where they have safety in numbers and are virtually unhunted in any meaningful way. This could shift the pressure more toward domestic calves, which are much easier than plucking an elk out of a herd of 300. It will also wreck the Shiras recruitment.

Ranchers will complain about too many elk, and managers will struggle with how to thin the herds. Wolves won't have a meaningful effect on elk numbers for some time. But they sure will have an effect on elk, and hunter, behavior. Things are changing, and with most things Colorado, changing faster than many of us would like, for residents and noneesidents.
 

WTFJohn

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They plan to release 15 more wolves this year, and more after that. Pups happen...I believe by 2030, elk hunting and season structures will be very different than today. Some areas will see even more elk staying down low in the giant "North Park" herds on the big ranches where they have safety in numbers and are virtually unhunted in any meaningful way. This could shift the pressure more toward domestic calves, which are much easier than plucking an elk out of a herd of 300. It will also wreck the Shiras recruitment.

Ranchers will complain about too many elk, and managers will struggle with how to thin the herds. Wolves won't have a meaningful effect on elk numbers for some time. But they sure will have an effect on elk, and hunter, behavior. Things are changing, and with most things Colorado, changing faster than many of us would like, for residents and noneesidents.

I highly doubt you will hear us complaining of too many elk. I'm working on getting a thread together regarding your last post. We won on Thursday's vote because we had facts and first hand experiences to sway the undecided members of the Commission. The other side had emotional & strawman arguments. There is the immediate impact of Thursday and a long term impact that we still have yet to realize.

Please contact the Wildlife Commission & the Director's office with positive messages regarding the vote on Wolf Depredation rule changes. It may have taken us a minute to find our voice (or a message that resonates like we want), but it is being heard and it matters.
 
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I think it's situational. As Commission members mentioned, the passion by bowhunters was a factor. But revenue is also a concern. They believe revenue will be recovered by keeping OTC rifle, which also helps with management objectives. Archers aren't a management tool. Herd health seems to be less of a concern, except for the dilemma of some DAUs being over objective because so many elk are unhuntable (huge herds.on private refuges). But no season structure change is going to fix that.
Thanks Lou. So I was thinking about AZ,s structure on deer. If you're lucky enough to get a otc deer tag, you check in weekly to see if the quota has been met in a given unit you are hunting. Once that quota is met, the unit is closed. Mandatory reporting is required. It's all about herd management.

However as you eluded to, archery is not much of a management tool. Still there is a cap on NR hunters while Residents go otc in alot of units in AZ. I was thinking if it truly was about the health of the herds,something similar could be done in CO to alleviate the overcrowding of hunters.

The overcrowding of hunters really has turned into a sour apple for me. I stopped rifle hunting deer here in NM because it didn't matter where I went in my chosen unit, it was a sea of orange which takes away from the experience.

For those thinking about hunting otc elk in CO, and have never done so, you won't get the total experience of just you against the prey anymore. Yes there are those who will find some success, but overall if you do it long enough, the experience has become alot less enjoyable when you are in areas you've "escouted" your azz off only to find multitudes of hunters at every hidden honeyhole put forth by all those capitalizing on the different apps.
 
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Jaquomo

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I highly doubt you will hear us complaining of too many elk. I'm working on getting a thread together regarding your last post. We won on Thursday's vote because we had facts and first hand experiences to sway the undecided members of the Commission. The other side had emotional & strawman arguments. There is the immediate impact of Thursday and a long term impact that we still have yet to realize.

Please contact the Wildlife Commission & the Director's office with positive messages regarding the vote on Wolf Depredation rule changes. It may have taken us a minute to find our voice (or a message that resonates like we want), but it is being heard and it matters.
Not sure what part of the state you are from, but the elk herd dynamics are a problem in North Park, ranchers are complaining and getting damage payments, elk roam the big ranches in giant herds throughout the entire hunting seasons, and game managers are at their wits end about what to do because they are over objective, give out basically unlimited PLO cow tags, and yet the problem continues to grow. Wolves will make it worse. This same phenomenon is happening (huge herds roaming the big private ranches where they are unhuntable) in other states where wolves have been present for decades.

The long term impact of Thursday's vote is yet to be understood, but it is a small step in the right direction.
 

WTFJohn

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Not sure what part of the state you are from, but the elk herd dynamics are a problem in North Park, ranchers are complaining and getting damage payments, elk roam the big ranches in giant herds throughout the entire hunting seasons, and game managers are at their wits end about what to do because they are over objective, give out basically unlimited PLO cow tags, and yet the problem continues to grow. Wolves will make it worse. This same phenomenon is happening (huge herds roaming the big private ranches where they are unhuntable) in other states where wolves have been present for decades.

The long term impact of Thursday's vote is yet to be understood, but it is a small step in the right direction.

I know it has been an issue in the past over there (and around here). I am not too far away, and I'll just say that our elk herds acted very different this winter than prior years once the wolves got into our area.
 
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I know it has been an issue in the past over there (and around here). I am not too far away, and I'll just say that our elk herds acted very different this winter than prior years once the wolves got into our area.
What is the different way elk herds acted this winter? Very interested in what you experienced. I.E. elk went lower into private land to have numbers in their favor as was described above?
 

WTFJohn

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This is amusing, I remember when you trolled me about riding off into the sunset on my horse. I'm from a neighboring state in the south and now live in the west (with more than one horse to boot); you're a clown.

What is the different way elk herds acted this winter? Very interested in what you experienced. I.E. elk went lower into private land to have numbers in their favor as was described above?

Very cagey & flighty at distances I'm more accustomed to seeing antelope react vs elk or deer.
 
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LOL, it is a good "ploy from residents to keep building points" at that. Residents get more play in any state than non-residents. Seems like crying or is crying being mistaken for trolling?
 
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