Corkscrew Arrow Flight - 2014 Hoyt CST

[Ironman8]

I'm at a loss here guys. I'll try to keep this short, but I've got some terrible corkscrew arrow flight when I screw on fixed blade broadheads. I've tuned my bow using all kinds of methods and even when the tune seems pretty dang good, it still happens. We're talking a corkscrew that I can see vividly and pulls the arrow off POA by about a foot....at 25yds!! I've almost missed the target when holding dead center. I can screw on a NAP Killzone and get FP-like flight and I can also shoot out to distance accurately with field points (given I don't screw it up).

How I've tuned it:
- Set bow to factory measurements
- Timed/Synched with top draw stop 1/8" ahead of bottom
- Shoot through Paper
- Walkback tune
- (Attempt) Broadhead tune

Bow Setup:
- 2014 Hoyt CST
- ~74# DW
- 27.25" DL
- TT Smackdown Rest

Arrow Setup:
- 300 Spine Black Eagle Rampage @ 27.5" C2C
- 175gr Point Weight (including 75gr brass insert & 100 tip)
- (3) VaneTec Super Spine 3" vanes at RH helical (have also tried Blazers with same results)
- FOC% should be around 17%

FBBH Tried So Far:
- VPA 100gr 3-blade (vented)
- Muzzy Trocar 100gr 3-blade
- Have some Wac-Ems that I haven't tried yet, but honestly don't know if it would matter.


Archers Advantage shows my arrow to be on the "slightly stiff" side, so it can't be that, right? What else should I be looking for here?

 

[Bwana]

Unless you have rest contact/rest timing issues, then you have a combination issue of nock point height & center shot position.

Always fix the nock height first/up-down issue. Go to 6 feet, and shoot a field point thru paper,,,move rest/nock point to repair. Then move to center shot position.

Moving the top cam to hit first by 1/8" on a draw board, is only the starting position...shooting the bow determines the final setting, which will be changed by moving nock point. Your hand shoots differently than a draw board post.

 

[Dameon]

Have you yoke tuned? What is your centershot measurement? Centershot should be at 13/16ths from the bare riser above the rubber pad to the centerline of a nocked arrow.

 

[Ironman8]

Bwana/Dameon,

When I shoot through paper, I am tuning the nock height, centershot, and yokes. I'm shooting from at least 6 feet, possibly a touch more. If I go from a tail right paper tear and tune rest/yokes to where I'm getting bullet holes, shouldn't that tell me that my rest/bow is tuned properly (or at least closer than it was)?

I don't think there's fletching contact either. That's the main reason I went away from Blazers to a low profile vane, to eliminate that possibility.

 

[Bwana]

Ironman,
Yes & no...you need to check the paper at different distances, you may just be in the "sweetspot" for a bullet hole. So try 6'/12'/20'.

If it shoots a "true" bullet hole, it will be flying much better than you're describing. After a proper paper set-up, then yoke tune at 20 yds with a bareshaft/broadhead and field point. You have to get the basics in order first, before moving onto finer details.

 

[Jeff Martin]

Many people think they have a cork screw flight when it is an optical illusion when you have a cock feather a different color. That doesn't mean you don't have a broad head flight issue but willing to bet your arrow flight is not what you think you see. Fletch the same color and see if you still that cork screw flight.
I also would play with less FOC, and poundage just to compare results. You would be surprised what backing off a full Turn of the limbs will do. Of course, I am skipping the 1000 different ideas on tuning.


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[Ironman8]

Bwana,

I'll try paper at different distances just to be sure. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Ironman8]

Jeff,

I fletch with all the same color. Also, the corkscrew that I'm seeing is significant. My cousin/hunting partner was with me when I shot the VPA and Muzzy and almost missed the target at 25 yds. due to the sharp corkscrew down and to the right, and he looked at me like he couldn't believe what he just saw. I can assure you it's not an optical illusion.

So are you suggesting to play with the poundage and FOC for the purpose of testing the spine of the arrow? (I can't change FOC, but I can decrease poundage).

 

[Bwana]

Ironman,
Go back to the foundation of the bows set-up, it's in the basic nock point/center shot location. It's normal to have arrow flight problems, than a tweak here/tweak there fixes it quickly. Your cables/string could have stretched, the bows draw length could have grown, causing face contact, nock point shifted from timing, etc..

There are many variables in play, so start at the beginning then move forward.

The paper doesn't lie at multiple distances, it's a snapshot picture of the arrow flight. I used to tune with paper only, now use many types of tuning styles...for fixed broadheads out to 60yds, same point of impact as field points. I'm sure you'll find the answer when you shoot the paper again at different distances.

 

[OR Archer]

Did you check to see if the broadheads are spinning true? If the broadheads are wobbling you're going to get terrible broadhead flight even if the field tips are flying good.

Bwana has given you good advice. Start back with the basics. Recheck your timing first. Like mentioned start with paper at 6' and move back to 20'. I personally like to shoot bare shaft through paper at multiple distances then verify with my fletched. Typically I will get great broadhead flight by doing this all the way to 90 yards.

 

[TurkeyBowMaster]

4 5" feathers...problem solved plus shorter recovery bc of feathers

 

[Brendan]

4 5" feathers...problem solved plus shorter recovery bc of feathers

There is absolutely no need whatsoever to go to 4 5" feathers..... That would be trying to cover up a tuning issue with too much drag.

 

[TurkeyBowMaster]

" I've got some terrible corkscrew arrow flight"

There is the reason!!

You obviously want to take it up a level with the head choice you made so get yourself a jig and experiment with feathers. No need to half way do things...good penetrating heads deserve good penetrating fletch and straightest flight possible.

You are on the right track so don't give up. Imo there are some even better heads with better flight qualities that are bigger and penetrate even better.

 

[Pramo]

There is a reason TBM uses and recommends 4 big feathers and a buck knife attached to the end of his arrow and those like Randy Ulmer do not...

Hope you get the bow tuned, I shoot a 2014 CST at 64 pounds and 29 1/2 draw with 300 spine arrows, 50 grain inserts and a 100 grain head. I have used many different vane combos and all worked fine. If I had to guess its rest contact, vane hitting your bow or arrow under spined. Try and back down the poundage and see if that helps.

Best of luck with it

 

[jmez]

Shoot a broadhead through paper.

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[Jason Snyder]

Have you spun the broad heads? Tried other broad heads?

What did backing off the poundage do? Have you checked form? Are you "cocking" your wrist on your release hand?


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[TurkeyBowMaster]

"There is a reason TBM uses and recommends 4 big feathers and a buck knife attached to the end of his arrow and those like Randy Ulmer do not..."

Where I hunt it is very thick and shots are normally close, the game is tenacious and can take a bad hit and go forever and tracking is tough. Big heads are best for the situations I find myself in and big heads call for lots of guidance at the rear. I figured my advice would get the op back in the game the quickest... perfection can be sought later on.

I don't play second fiddle to Randy Ulmer or any other big name hunter... I have found no reason to do so...not sure why anyone would want to. If I hunted where he does I would likely set up much like he does for the longer range shots that are common in that area. But where I hunt I use the best arrow and head for the conditions.

 

[colersu22]

Have you tried any of the suggestions Ironman8? I always like these threads so I can learn more about tuning bow and how to troubleshoot issues.