Colorado's new big game season structure: Submit your ideas!

[live2huntelk]

Recently received an e-mail from a Colorado guide service encouraging hunter's to voice their opinion's on the next 5-year big game structure....

"Colorado Parks & Wildlife manages the state's hunting seasons on a five-year plan. This helps the agency maintain structures long enough to measure impact, yet allows changes often enough for improvements. The current 5-year structure ends in 2014 and the state is now planning its new Big Game Season Structure for 2015-2019.

From now until March 31, the public is encouraged to submit comments and suggestions. The Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission will then adopt a new five-year structure at their meeting in September, 2014. Any changes will go into effect during the 2015 hunting seasons, and will last for at least five years, until the next structure comes up for debate.

We would encourage all of our hunters to fill out the public survey and submit comments for this process. For example, here are some of the changes that we would like to see made:

1. We suggest that the archery season start one week later, and end one week later.

2. We would also like to see the first, second and third rifle seasons moved back accordingly, and remove the fourth rifle season altogether. Since the fourth rifle season is limited and not sold over the counter like second and third rifle seasons, it is under-applied for, and serves little purpose. This would also allow a longer break between first and second rifle seasons.

3.. We would like to see all cow hunts take place after the bull hunting seasons. Cows represent the future of our elk herd, and we would like to see fewer harvested each year. A reduced number of cow-only hunts could take place after bull hunting seasons, in late November or December.

4. We would like to see preference point banking reinstated. This system allows hunters to spend only the number of points that it takes to draw a particular unit. Any extra points are kept. Under the current system, if you have 10 points and apply for a unit that takes five points, you will lose all 10 points if you draw. With point banking, the system would take the five points you need, and you'd be allowed to keep the other five."

If you have ideas or comments that you would like to submit, use the following link:

http://cpw.state.co.us/thingstodo/Pages/SeasonStructureOnlineForm.aspx

Here is a chance to participate in the process. Some other suggestions that come to mind are allowing camera's (ie Go Pro) to be mounted on bows and permission to use lighted knocks for those who wish to do so.

Let's hear some of your comments/opinions.......

 

[orionthehunter1]

None of the elk units down by me have had any elk tags leftover for fourth season and I don't think any of the deer units have under subscribed ever. I do like the point banking idea especially if they let it run more than one year like they did last time. I believe it needs to run longer to see if it alleviates any of the point creep.

 

[robby denning]

"Fourth season is under applied for"
They gotta be talking elk.

Would love to see point banking come back IF they would let it ride out for 10 years instead of panicking after one. You'd see those 15+ point holders apply and within in a few years, point creep would slow, IMO

But yes, we low point holders would suffer for a while.

 

[Vector32]

I would like to see the point bank come back.

 

[Wapiti66]

I feel like the point bank idea would actually hurt the draw odds badly for those with <5 or so. A lot of guys in the middle teens would be eating these low PP units up forcing the low number guys to only keep building points instead of burning them. I guess it mainly depends on how many points you have as to where most people will stand on the issue.
Me personally, I have 3 points for elk and am going to try and burn them this year. I do not want to build points and chase units, I burned 10 points in 2010 and glad I got out when I did. My plan from here on out is to build up to about 5 max and have them burned. If the point bank is re-introduced then I have way less chance of drawing these 1-5 point units bc they too will creep in a hurry IMO. Forcing me to only build more points and in the end I don't think this does anything to the point "jog" issue.
Again, this is my situation and Im sure I would have a different view if I was at 14 or so. My dad and bro have been chasing 61 archery since it took 11 PPs. They like most would just like to get the stress over with and burn the points on a hunt but have very few options without cashing in a lot of points for nothing. It's a tough situation for applicants and the state but Im not sure point bank relieves point creep.

While all this is just my opinion, I HOPE somebody can give me some stats or something to prove me wrong on this.....I agree something pretty aggressive needs to be done to help the point creep issue and would like Co to try almost anything including point bank over nothing to see what may happen.

 

[realunlucky]

I'm also against point banking but guess it just depends on which end of the spectrum your on. Know you wouldn't be hunting 61 anytime soon because everyone that was holding out for big three will. 1 keeping waiting and praying other will bank some 2 try and hunt a mid tier unit twice and just force the creep farther down. I'm not really a fan of the current system but see point banking only helping a select percentage of point holders

 

[brunse]

"For example, here are some of the changes that we would like to see made"
Who does "we" include?

 

[brunse]

Personally I am not interested in supporting altering the point system as many describe. Allowing point banking will absolutely negatively impact the units currently requiring 0-2 minimum points for NR. If something must be done, my suggestion includes allowing a percentage of random tags for highly desired units. Also, if following the point banking suggestion then allow them to be used only in blocks of points.... like say five at a time.

 

[live2huntelk]

"For example, here are some of the changes that we would like to see made"
Who does "we" include?

The content of the e-mail that I received from the outfitter is in " ".....hence the reference to "We" is the outfitter. The outfitter has been guiding for 30+ years. I have no connection to the outfitter nor have I had any dealings with the outfiiter other than subscribe to their newsletter.....they guide in a unit near where I hunt. I use the newsletter to see how the winter and spring weather is in the unit and any other possible information that may affect hunting. Thought the "banking points" part would be something others would be interested in voicing their opinion to the Colorado Parks and Wildlife.

 

[Liv2HntBigBullz]

This is a really hot topic and CPW needs to do something about it.

I attended the Loveland "meeting" and a couple others that frequent the forums were there as well (you know who you are). Right or wrong CPW has already deciding that point banking will happen. The only contention is if it will "cost" the minimum to draw year prior +1 point or the minimum +2. This will be instated for the next 5 years in order to allow some high point holder buy-in. Sure this sounds great in theory but in my opinion it is going to create a huge gap in point holders and force competition into the "low" point units decreasing opportunity for many. Bottom line is it will not correct point creep nor is it sustainable going forward. The reason many want to see it is they are in "no man's land" and they want the oppotunity to cash in a couple of times. I flat out believe CPW needs to say "too bad" hold em or burn em. Yes it sounds harsh but I am there sitting on 10 elk points and 12 for pronghorn.

Here is what I have proposed to take care of the point creep issue (yes it's a problem CPW ran numbers and 95% of youth hunters now will never see a "trophy unit hunt" in their lifetimes). For this next 5 year season, set-up a trophy draw. I don't see why 7 early rifle elk tags in unit 201 is any different from the coveted sheep, goat, or moose tags in this state. This draw will originally be set up so that in oder to be considered you must have a minimum to enter which would be equal to 75% of the points used to draw the year prior. Aka if the hunt code took 20 points applicants would need 15 or more. The first 30% of licenses available will go to the highest point holder (no different than it is now). This would only be done to "appease" those that have invested 22 years and were "going to draw" in the next 5 years. The rest of the licenses available would be awarded in a complete lottery draw (thought about a waited PP draw but I like perfectly random better). This would allow the very top end to draw out and others late in the game to randomly be chosen. Then after this 5 year season structure, these managed "trophy hunts" would be designated as trophy draws. Anyone with 5 PP can enter and licenses will be awarded on a lottery basis. If you put in for this draw you do not accumulate a PP and when you draw you go to 0 points. This will force applicants to prioritze what they want in terms of opportunities.

Bottom line is CPW is going to piss people off and some how its not going to be fair. But rip off the band-aid now because the pool of folks that are going to get pissed off is only growing.

I am open for criticism on this plan, but at the end of the day demand has outgrown a system that worked very well prior.

 

[krueger]

I think point banking is a HORRIBLE idea and I can't stand how high point holders think Colorado owes them something (trophy of a lifetime or multiple mid point draw hunts under point banking). Nobody forced you to keep collecting points year after year after year after year after year... and i bet the majority of high point holders were getting OTC or leftover tags the entire time and were still hunting almost every year. They may say the current point system isn't fair because I started putting in for unit XYZ when it only took 4 points and now I have 15 points but I'm not any closer to drawing unit XYZ than i was the first year i applied. Well guess what... you had 15 years to to see the point creep trend and change your draw strategy but you didn't.

I think it really just boils down to people being greedy. High point holders could have dumped their points on a "lesser" unit anytime but they didn't because they had a poorly thought out draw strategy and didn't recongize the point creep soon enough. Now they want to whine and complain and try to change the rules to give them an advantage over other hunters that didn't fall for the hype of unit 201 or 2 or XYZ.

It sucks and i feel for you that you made a bad miscalculation and collected points for over a decade when you could have been hunting 0-2 points units regularly (and probably killing multiple trophies) if you had a better planned draw strategy but it does not entitle you to special treatment and nobody owes you anything for all your points.

 

[orionthehunter1]

That's the problem with Colorado guys can build points and still hunt OTC every year or undersubscribed units. I'm not saying point banking is the best option, but it seems to be the only rational option that has been suggested.

 

[realunlucky]

Why would Colorado adopt point banking again? People are unhappy but still buying points still playing the game. Point creep isn't going away as long as there are x amount of tags and X2 people applying for those tags.

 

[realunlucky]

You could go to full on lotto system with one entry per point oh wait top of the point system don't want that it's not fair. No other way for people just starting to draw top maybe even a mid tier unit

 

[brettb]

Hate to say it guys but its the lottery.its almost the exact same as gambling.ok it is gambling. i personally think the point bank is b.s. if you draw a tag first choice your back to ground zero with the rest of us. but i also think there are units that hold just as many quality animals as these once in a lifetime units. which imo i can shoot just as big of animals with an otc tag into draw areas to start producing the quality with the quanity.if tjey say its not possible than i will call b.s. once again

 

[ChadS]

What if the increased the number of draw units across the spectrum? Make more of the states units, draw units, and spread it all out making the whole state an easier place to "shop" ?? IDK, just an idea not sure how it would effect the PP enviornment

 

[krueger]

The best idea would be you lose all your points if you draw 1st choice or get a list "A" tag. Not gaining points and hunting bulls every year - this is what enables point creep to happen. That would eliminate a ton points and point creep. You can't have your cake and eat it too, do you want to hunt bulls every year or wait for a trophy unit.

If you get a bull or buck tag (regardless if its draw, OTC or leftover) you should lose your points. - Point creep problem solved.

 

[dirtytough]

Agreed with Krueger but we need to add land owner vouchers also. End of point creep right there.

 

[ChadS]

Couldnt they create more mid tier units? Cut 25-30% of the OTC hunters out, making it a great place to hunt somewhat less crowded than OTC. That would increase the mid range PP spending and take a lot of pressure off the creep? Offer something for everybody. OTC, 1-5 point unints, 6-12, 12-17, 17+? This state has a ton of OTC units that they could manipulate and manage with little effort and create great opportunites. They are pretty stinkin good in the OTC's already if you work for it.

 

[Coveyleader]

I'm sitting on quite a few points and could care less what they do. I think it's all BS. We're talking about a couple units that people will never draw. Who cares, what about the other 100 units available from OTC to 5-6 points? The sad thing is this all revolves around "Elk".

I don't even see what the problem is. Point creep? On what? Unit 2, 201, 61, who cares? If you want to hunt those units, you most likely never will, but most will never hunt goats, sheep, or a moose either. We have one of the best systems going, and you get a few that cry about everything hence change. Heck half the guys I meet in the field could care less about those units as do I.

One only has to look at almost every state and how jacked up their draws are. I'm sorry, CO has the best thing going no strings attached.