Canada Border And 2020 US Hunters

[Haulin'Ass Backcountry]

I’m looking for opinions from guys who were supposed to be going on guided hunts in Canada in 2020. My hunt as everyone’s has been cancelled. My outfitter has made it happen that my hunt will be moved to 2021. I am very appreciative of that. My question is he is now asking for a rollover fee. It is not a cheap rollover fee either. Is anyone else experiencing this? I realize Covid has affected us all. I will say for a once in a lifetime hunt that I have been planning for years that the luster of the whole thing has faded. This was a huge monetary sacrifice for my family. To ask me for another check as a rollover fee/penalty I don’t find that to be fair.

 

[Nickziegler]

That is rediculous that he wants a rollover fee. No one could predict this. I get that this has hurt many of the outfitters but come on. This has hurt most of the people going on these hunts also Asking for more money is just wrong just to roll over your hunt. Almost 99% of the outfits that I know have just rolled everything over with no additional fee. My dad and I are booked with a NZ outfitters for 2022 luckily for some stags and tahr and if they wouldt try to pull that on us I would be making that public for everyone to see. Especially if you say they want a hefty fee.

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[brsnow]

A Muskie fishing lodge is not refunding or rolling over, I guess if the demand Is there.

 

[Gearqueer]

I’d be pissed. This doesn’t pass the sniff test.


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[Gearqueer]

A Muskie fishing lodge is not refunding or rolling over, I guess if the demand Is there.

Please share the name of said lodge.


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[uwantasandwich]

Had our hunt moved to next year as well, guide just simply asked if we wanted to use the deposit we already paid to hold a spot for 2021. We agreed and are on the books next year. I agree an additional rollover fee seems ridiculous

 

[brsnow]

Please share the name of said lodge.


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edited

 

[rlmmarine]

It is on Cedar Lake I believe and discussion is pretty prevalent on the internet, I would prefer not to post the name. Just highlighting the difficult situation.

Please post the name. Business should be proud of how they treat customers or pay the price. If that is their policy then those of us that may be planning a trip should be informed
Thanks

 

[UpSideDown]

Was it in the contract that if you can't make it, there's no rollover? If that's what you signed on for, this is that circumstance, and they don't necessarily owe you anything. They have to eat too. Normal business practice in the US/Canada would say that they would roll it over, but there's a strong chance that if they don't charge this fee to their customers, they might not be in business to take you next year. I don't know. Imagine a business with high overhead having 90% of their customers cancel one year, what would you do? Starve?

 

[brsnow]

Please post the name. Business should be proud of how they treat customers or pay the price. If that is their policy then those of us that may be planning a trip should be informed
Thanks

I did not lose money, I came across the issue researching a trip for next year. I can’t confirm it is correct, just came across the issue via reviews and fishing forums.

 

[Haulin'Ass Backcountry]

I won’t post the business name yet. I’m just trying to work through this. I’m frustrated and I get everyone has to survive business person and client. However just as many of you know there are many other costs that go along with a hunt. Travel to and from, meat care I’m towing a trailer and a freezer, and simply tipping the guides the money they should be tipped. For a hunt that costs a lot of money the tip itself can be a big chunk of change if you tip appropriately. If he were globally increasing the costs of his hunts due to COVID that would be one thing. It just seems that guys who have been unfortunate enough to have booked their hunt for 2020 that we are being punished for it. We have made substantial monetary investments into these hunts. It’s such a shitty situation. To be honest the owner of the business has been nothing but transparent. He has never mixed words and always up front and responsive to emails. I am just frustrated with the request.

 

[Gearqueer]

Not sure about Canada, but U.S. businesses are getting government relief and I’d imagine it’s the same deal for Canadians. However, some rich American guy who spent for a once in a lifetime hunt is not going to get squat from the Canadian government.

Edit: I’d make it very clear that HIS government dictated that you were unwelcome to do business with him, and any losses incurred from COVID should be taken up with them.

You may ask your outfitter if they requested or received government relief, or if the next year’s hunt rate is more pricey, or how many clients are booked for next year as opposed to this year. Some negotiation tactics for this extra fee he’s requesting.

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[gearguywb]

Roll over fee is ridiculous. Due to no fault of the hunter they could not make it. Different situation if YOU decided to roll the hunt over due to something happening in your life, but this is global and the hunt didn't happen due to Canada regulations

 

[TheGrayRider]

Likewise. The rollover fee request from the Canadian outfitter is ridiculous. That unnamed entity/person is most probably leveraged to the edge and on the verge of Canadian bankruptcy. Sounds like he/she is grasping for any funds to stay afloat. The risky part is that if he/she/it goes bankrupt then all prepaid hunters and fishermen will lose everything. 2020. Gotta love it!

 

[Ariettabob]

I ended up fighting for and finally receiving a refund for my sheep hunt, minus 10% of my deposit. It took threats of a law suit to accomplish this. The outfitter originally wanted to keep 50% of the deposit(25% of the total hunt cost)when Covid 1st became a thing and then again when I requested a refund, which infuriated me and the discussion went downhill from there.
My problem was, I no longer trusted him to give me a good hunt. He was upset that I and others wouldn’t go along with his theft attempt and he made his displeasure with us really clear. He also, right to the end, refused to give us firm 2021 dates, by using vague words such as “You’re penciled in” or “I should be able to” and the scariest one “I hope to keep 2021 prices close to what you booked at”.
I, and several other of his 2020 sheep hunters, simply decided he was a foolish, greedy businessman and someone we couldn’t trust. We weren’t sending good money after bad, while not believing that our sheep hunts would be executed professionally.

 

[Haulin'Ass Backcountry]

What a horrible situation. You plan for 2 years to book a hunt you have literally dreamed about since you were a teenager watching your first Canadian hunt on tv. It kind of dulls the luster on this dream trip. I’m a needle in a stack of needles though. There are so many guys like me I’m sure. Just such a stick in the side to ask for that extra money. The worst part about it is you have to be concerned about the treatment you will receive if you are resistent

 

[Ariettabob]

What a horrible situation. You plan for 2 years to book a hunt you have literally dreamed about since you were a teenager watching your first Canadian hunt on tv. It kind of dulls the luster on this dream trip. I’m a needle in a stack of needles though. There are so many guys like me I’m sure. Just such a stick in the side to ask for that extra money. The worst part about it is you have to be concerned about the treatment you will receive if you are resistent

I’ve mentally chalked it up to dealing with an outfitter who’s true colors were outed by a bad situation, 2020. I refuse to blame the whole industry, or be bitter. This is my only personal/mental defense against the feeling of “dulls the luster”. I’ll book another sheep hunt and go into it with all the excitement I would’ve gone into the 2020 hunt if it had happened as expected.

 

[Haulin'Ass Backcountry]

Was it in the contract that if you can't make it, there's no rollover? If that's what you signed on for, this is that circumstance, and they don't necessarily owe you anything. They have to eat too. Normal business practice in the US/Canada would say that they would roll it over, but there's a strong chance that if they don't charge this fee to their customers, they might not be in business to take you next year. I don't know. Imagine a business with high overhead having 90% of their customers cancel one year, what would you do? Starve?

So the reason I’m upset is this was never discussed with me. I emailed outfitter regarding some concerns of mine regarding availability due to work. I received an email stating hey I was able to put you on for same dates next year. There will also be a roll over fee. I think a discussion was warranted prior to a decision being made. Just talk it out with me let me know the situation. I’ve been in contact intermittently since February when Covid hit regarding my concerns. I paid in full in good faith that if it didn’t happen this year that my hunt would be rescheduled. Never during any of that time was a contract amendment negotiated nor was it even brought up that a rollover fee would be a possibility.
I understand the concept of the rollover fee what I don’t understand is the lack of open communication about it. This was a large investment for me I would have preferred a seat at the table when discussing the fate of my investment.

I have thought long and hard about this because it makes me sick to complain to someone. I work in an industry that provides service. So understanding the things people go through to provide a service is part of my every day life. There was never anything about this in the contract. No act of god language. When something that happens outside of both parties control that causes the current contract to be made impossible. Then a new contract needs to be discussed or the pre contract status needs to go in to affect. Both client and outfitter are affected by this. One side does not deserve preference over the other. They should work together. There should be transparency.

 

[AKBorn]

So the reason I’m upset is this was never discussed with me. I emailed outfitter regarding some concerns of mine regarding availability due to work. I received an email stating hey I was able to put you on for same dates next year. There will also be a roll over fee. I think a discussion was warranted prior to a decision being made. Just talk it out with me let me know the situation. I’ve been in contact intermittently since February when Covid hit regarding my concerns. I paid in full in good faith that if it didn’t happen this year that my hunt would be rescheduled. Never during any of that time was a contract amendment negotiated nor was it even brought up that a rollover fee would be a possibility.
I understand the concept of the rollover fee what I don’t understand is the lack of open communication about it. This was a large investment for me I would have preferred a seat at the table when discussing the fate of my investment.

I have thought long and hard about this because it makes me sick to complain to someone. I work in an industry that provides service. So understanding the things people go through to provide a service is part of my every day life. There was never anything about this in the contract. No act of god language. When something that happens outside of both parties control that causes the current contract to be made impossible. Then a new contract needs to be discussed or the pre contract status needs to go in to affect. Both client and outfitter are affected by this. One side does not deserve preference over the other. They should work together. There should be transparency.

There is no way that he should have taken the step to rebook you at the same dates in 2021 without involving you heavily in that discussion. And, just stating that there will be a rollover fee, out of the blue, is minor league BS in my book.

I am sorry that it has dulled your enthusiasm for a hunt that you saved a long time for. If it were me, I would not be able to hunt with that person next year, simply because I would have lost any respect for him based on how he handled this.

 

[Scottyboy]

Like my good friends on South Park say (this might be lost for some). Fu^* Canada!

we lost our deposit for fishing this year and they would rebook us in the future for a fee (50% deposit paid would roll) I asked, well...what if nothing has changed in a year regarding masks or whatever else makes people feel good about this super deadly virus and they said we will figure it out then.

We might rebook when things are more solidified as far as travel/restrictions goes, until then we are sticking to the states.