Bullet selection

[Eye]

So I have decided to hunt muzzy this year, in Montana general season. Elk and muley's. I have owned a BP pistol before, but this will be my first inline. My research has raised some questions.

Concerning sabots. This seems to be the way to go. I am not concerned with legalities in other states. With a .50 gun, will I be buying a smaller caliber of bullet fitted with a sabot? Or do I buy the sabot separately and fit them myself?

Concerning primers. And powder. Everything seems to be labeled as "209". What does this mean, and does each individual component need to be "209"?

I would take suggestions as to some initial bullet/pellet/primer combinations to try out as I get dialed in on what is working best for this gun. For reference it is a CVA Optima V2

 

[Adam Gibbs]

You could buy bullets and sabots seperate to try and get a tight bore fit, but so far I've found decent shooting load combos without having to do that.

The way I look at it you can go two ways, easy or slightly harder. For years I shot pyrodex and triple 7 pellets. Drop 2 or 3 pellets in the bore, push down your bullet of choice and throw a primer in. Chances are you will find a perfectly acceptable load for hunting. Upside is ease of use. Downsides are triple 7 and the like are dirty. Meaning if you want any sort of repeatable accuracy you need to clean the bore between shots. Not hard, just time consuming.

This year I finally made the switch to Blackhorn 209 powder. So far I really like it. Takes some time measuring out the loose powder but it's clean so you don't necessarily have to swab the bore between shots. I still am tweaking the loads but nothing I've tried has been terribly inaccurate with Barnes 290gr TEZ bullets.

Speaking of bullets, you have a multitude of options. I shot shockwaves for a long time. Killed several deer with them. But the blood trails were always lacking if I didn't shoulder shoot them. I switched to the Barnes this year after reading all the stellar reviews. It's just a matter of preference though. Find what shoots best in your gun and go with it. I'd just stay away from power belt is all. A quick Google search will show you why.

As to why you see 209 in everything, it's just marketing. Don't have to have components that specifically say 209(except primers).

Good luck!

 

[Eye]

Thank you very much for the informative reply. That will go a long ways for me at the gun shop!

 

[sabotloader]

So I have decided to hunt muzzy this year, in Montana general season. Elk and muley's. I have owned a BP pistol before, but this will be my first inline. My research has raised some questions.

Concerning sabots. This seems to be the way to go. I am not concerned with legalities in other states. With a .50 gun, will I be buying a smaller caliber of bullet fitted with a sabot? Or do I buy the sabot separately and fit them myself?

It would be my suggestion - wait what rifle will be getting? anyway my suggestion is to purchase a reloaders box of bullets of the weight you might want to use. Then match the sabot to your bore. Probably a MMP HPH-24 or a Havester long black. I would suggest a 45 cal bullet or even a .458 bullet made for rifles and use the MMP Orange sabot .457/.458x 50 cal.

Concerning primers. And powder. Everything seems to be labeled as "209". What does this mean, and does each individual component need to be "209"?

Most modern inlines use a Shotgun 209 primer as the ignition source. Shotgun primers come in different lengths and power. Depending the rifle you choose the primer can be matched to the rifle.

If you are just starting and using a 209 ignition - probably the best powder for would be BH-209 Powder. It is a smokeless powder manufactured to meet specification of a black powder sub. And would a very good powder for the General Season in Montana. you could also use Hodgdon Triple Seven Powder but there is a bit of a learning curve with it.

I would take suggestions as to some initial bullet/pellet/primer combinations to try out as I get dialed in on what is working best for this gun. For reference it is a CVA Optima V2

Just got to this part... CVA's normally have a very tight bore which means you might need to goto a Harvester Crush Rib sabot - which also means you would need to use 45 cal. bullets. You will not know about any of this until you get the rifle and try the components. CVA, of course, would like you to use their bullets Power Belts which come with their own plastic bases. Personally and this is just my opinion - pass on the Power Belts - or if you decide to go that way go with the Areo Lites.

If you go with the BH powder you are going to need to get a BH compliant breech plug from Western Powders or CVA. The plug that comes with the rifle will work fine with all of the other BP or BP subs.

There will be some other minor problems getting started but once you get started they 'fixes' we make much more sense.

Hope some of this helps!

 

[Eye]

sabotloader

Thank you very much for the detailed breakdown. I appreciate that information and those recommendations very much. This will make my next trip to the gun store much more focused, as well as give me some more specialized research areas. Cant wait to get started next week!

 

[duckhunter175]

I have owned 2 different CVAs, both were Accuras. Very similar to your Optima. sabotloader has great advice.

Harvester Crush Rib Sabots (Black)--- coupled with their 260gr Scorpion PT Gold bullet has provided 1.5" accuracy at 150 yards for me.

Blackhorn 209 powder and Winchester 209 primers. (Make sure to get the BH209 breech plug).

When it comes to the powder-- blackpowder (and variants) are normally measured 'by volume' and not by weight. This is an important distinction to make so you do not overcharge your rifle. Ex: I measure my charges on a scale 'by weight' to 80 grains.... if you measured that same charge 'by volume' in a tube its around 105gr. So don't weigh out a 150gr charge because the equivalent of that would be UNSAFE. I use the scale to be more precise.

Make sure you have your cleaning supplies on hand at the range so you can clean bore and don't have to head home after a few shots!

 

[Eye]

Duckhunter- Thanks for the CVA specific advice. Nice to have some first hand knowledge. The BH powder seems to be well reccomended, I think that it will be a good place to start. The bit about the aftermarket breech plug is echoed from sabotloader. Good to know.

As far as the measurements and volume, this I am aware of. I owned a BP pistol for a while, an 1860 Army replica. So the basics of loading and measuring I have some experience with. As well as the accuracy woes of a dirty barrel. But those were round balls of course.

I am looking forward to the fun of top loading with some of the modern perks of these new (relatively speaking in terms of muzzy's) inlines!

 

[Backpack Hunter]

If it helps I have a CVA Wolf that shoots 100gr of Blackhorn 209 powder, Winchester 209 Muzzleloader primers, and Thompson Center Shock Wave 250gr sabots very well. I could not get a single PowerBelt to shoot well.
I would want to shoot something heavier than that for elk, but it works great on deer.

 

[Ballbearing]

What about the Thor one size fits all?

-I don't mean to hijack or add to the confusion. Just asking because I'm in the same situation and considering the same rifle as the OP.

Thanks.

 

[sabotloader]

What about the Thor one size fits all?

-I don't mean to hijack or add to the confusion. Just asking because I'm in the same situation and considering the same rifle as the OP.

Thanks.

You may find that the Thor is really hard to load especially in a CVA. They do offer a sizing kit to try to get the correct fit.

 

[Ballbearing]

Well, that's unfortunate. Thanks for the information though.

 

[sabotloader]

Well, that's unfortunate. Thanks for the information though.

Do not take that as a 'for positive' because of the way ML bores are constructed you will not know for sure until you try... A lot of folks seem to use the Hornady FPB in Colorado...

https://www.hornady.com/muzzleloading/fpb-muzzleloading#!/

 

[LRx]

Be aware, if you're hunting in a Weapons Restriction zone, sabots are NOT legal to use in MT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[robie]

What about the Thor one size fits all?

-I don't mean to hijack or add to the confusion. Just asking because I'm in the same situation and considering the same rifle as the OP.

Thanks.

He will send you a kit with multiple sizes to get the exact fit. Very easy and works like a charm. After that you just order the exact size you need.

I've never used his one size fits all so can't comment.

 

[muddydogs]

Myself personally I stay away from all the muzzy specific primers and bullet as there generally over priced and can be hard to find close to the muzzy season. For primers I use basic shotgun primers found in the shotgun reloading section, either Win 209 or CCI 209M depending on the muzzy I'm shooting. For bullets I like the Hornady line of XTP .45 pistol bullets, my go to bullet is the 300 grain XTP as I'm usually hunting elk and deer at the same time. Harvester crushed rib sabots and BH 209 are the only muzzy specific products I use as BH powder cleans up great with normal gun cleaning solvent I don't even mess with the BP specific solvents.

Since BH209 is kind of expensive if I just want to shoot the muzzy with no real target work I will shoot some Pyrodex powder out of it as I have a few pounds setting around and I also cast some 300 grain /45 cal pistol bullets that shoot close to the same POI as the XTP's that I shoot when I just want to shoot.

 

[longrangelead]

I have also found Hornady's FTX bullets of 225 and 250 gr to be extremely accurate if you can shoot sabots. I shoot both .44/green sabot and .45/black sabot and don't see any difference at the target. The FTX's are hard hitters on deer. I usually use .45-250gr Barnes XPB(big hollow point) for close range elk and the .45-250gr TSX for long range elk.

Can anyone suggest a really accurate Idaho legal lead bullet in 50 cal?

 

[RTR]

I could not get a single PowerBelt to shoot well.

I've had nothing but amazing luck with PowerBelt bullets... it always surprises me when I hear people with a different experience.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

I've had nothing but amazing luck with PowerBelt bullets... it always surprises me when I hear people with a different experience.

I have shot them before in several different muzzle loaders with good results, honestly didn't expect any issues with them this time......that's why we verify I guess.

Esse quam videri

 

[Silentstalker]

Excellent advice given. In my CVA accura I shoot BH209 and .452 - 300 gr. Hornady XTP. I use MMP HPH 24 sabots and CCI mag primers.

That combo is very accurate and cheap to shoot if you buy the bullets and sabots in bulk. We have not had to track a deer with this combo.

Good luck in your new gun!

 

[Plantedtao]

Good read.
Didnt realize the powerbelts could be part of my grouping issues. Gets inaccurate fast. Using a Knight Big Horn .50 cal with 100 gr pyrodex rs and 295 copper powerbelts. This is what my buddy showed me and just never switched it up. Looks like I need to try a different combo. Just switched out to a 209 breach plug.

As a newbie there seems to be just too many combos. Any suggestions would be helpful?