Broadhead flight issues -- weird stuff

[andydwyer]

Guys! Help! I got my first new bow and its kicking me ass. I only have 2 arrows that fly straight enough to make a 30 yard shot with broadheads. With field points I'm able to shoot 3" groups at 60 fairly easily.

I'm having some flight issues. Heres my setup:

Mathews v3 31
75lb 80% C mod turned down to 65lbs
the draw is supposed to be 29.5, but I think it's closer to 29.75
Vaportrail Pro V rest

GT Hunter XT 300 27.725" carbon to carbon
9.3 gpi
24gr lighted nocks
5" wrap
4 AAE Max 23 Plastifletch @ 3 degree right offset
150gr Cutthroat SB Right
I am also trying out all the 100gr heads I have: Stingers, NAP Spitfire, Steelforce 2 blade

SO, TWO of my 6 remaining arrows (refletching 3 tonight, broke the other 3) fly straight with the Cuttthroats and the other for are corkscrewing out of the bow and the POI is 6" off at 20 yards. If I rotate the nock, the bad POI rotates with it. The flight is so bad, that when i have a lighted nock in I can see the arrow corkscrew on its way to the target. It's a LARGE loop

With the other heads, I have 2 more arrows that work-ish out to 30. groups are bigger than id like, but I can confidently take a 30 yard shot (if i sight in for the lighter heads)

I tried rest tuning to get the FP and BH to group together, but I don't have enough room to move the rest because the cable guard is in the way. I'm very new to bow/arrow tuning so any suggestions on paths to start down would be awesome. I have a Mathews Tophat set coming, but don't have a press. A friend of mine that works in a bow shop is going to figure out what portable press I should get.

Unfortunately, I blew all my money on the bow setup and buying all new arrows would bum me out big time. Could it be that only 2 of my arrows are straight? Any DIY arrow spinning tips? Are the spines inconsistent?

It's crunch time -- just found a 5-7 year old whitetail buck on public land, and I'd really like to be able to take a 40 yard shot at him if he gives me an opportunity.

 

[Billy Goat]

Are you certain you aren't having fletching clearance issues?


Rotating the nocks should give you clearance, but with 4 fletch maybe you are just putting a different vane in contact.


Likely you need to start shimming your top hats, but if you aren't getting consistent impact points, something is going on.

I think you will be fine with the shafts you are using, just need to figure out what's going on, seems like a interference issue to me.

 

[Rob5589]

Broadheads spinning true? Rest timed?

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I'd try shooting some bareshafts to help determine whether the problem is with the bow or the arrows. If you can get bareshafts and fletched shafts (both tipped with field points) to group together, that would eliminate vane contact as the issue and suggest broadhead-to-shaft alignment is your problem.

 

[Reburn]

I personally would start by getting the proper mods on the bow for the draw weight you want. Thats the whole point of switchweight cams.

Then I would buy a pine ridge arrow spinner and see if the arrows spin true.

Then I would baby powder everything up and look for fletching contact.

After these items are complete then go into top hat tuning.

 

[andydwyer]

suggest broadhead-to-shaft alignment is your problem.

What do you mean by that? Broadheads aligned with fletchings? Or some other thing I don't know about?

When I get home I'll shoot bare shafts with fletched arrows, put foot powder on everything, and spin them to try to figure this out. Thanks guys

IF the arrows spin fine, there's no vane contact, and I get them aligned... It's tophat time?

I'm still using the stock strings, so I think the stretch has settled in. Looking at the timing hole, they it doesn't look exactly the same on both cams. Could that be a culprit?

 

[Beendare]

Del

.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

What do you mean by that? Broadheads aligned with fletchings? Or some other thing I don't know about?

No, I wasn't referring to aligning broadheads with fletching. I should've said broadhead-to-shaft "concentricity" instead of "alignment." What I was getting at is that if the broadhead, insert, and shaft aren't all in line and spinning concentrically, that could cause broadheads to hit differently than field points. A bent broadhead ferrule, poorly installed or loose fitting insert, shaft that wasn't cut square, or an especially crooked shaft could all lead to poor concentricity.

IF the arrows spin fine, there's no vane contact, and I get them aligned... It's tophat time?

Yes, assuming you're trying to fix a left/right issue. You said your broadheads are off 6" but you didn't say which direction unless I missed that somewhere.

I'm still using the stock strings, so I think the stretch has settled in. Looking at the timing hole, they it doesn't look exactly the same on both cams. Could that be a culprit?

Cam timing affects the vertical tune. If broadheads are hitting above or below field points, then yes, you may need to adjust cam timing. I would recommend confirming that your arrow is running level through the Berger hole (adjust rest elevation or nocking point location if it's not) before you start adjusting cam timing.

 

[Page Master]

Shoot a bare shaft through paper, see what happens with each of the arrows. If the 2 shooting good are bullets, you know the other 2 are junk.

If you have issues and it is 100% certain to be arrow related I probably have a half dozen I can send that will work better.

 

[kodiakfisher]

IF field points are grouping well out to 60 yards it would seem cam timing, fletch clearances and arrow rest are all working well. IF your FOC is close to mid point I did have an instance where 2 of my broad heads consistently hit just a bit left at 50 years. Changed broad heads to slightly heavier and that moved FOC forward a bit and the fletch were able to stabilize the arrow and fixed my issue. Often times with issues like this it can be 2 or 3 small things that have compounded to create an issue...such as slight differences in arrow spine combined with marginal FOC and broad heads tending to plane a bit more needing the smallest of rest adjustments. It can be maddening at times. Solid broad heads tend to plane a bit more...

 

[JayTx]

I've had similar issues to the OP. Nock tuning fixed it sometimes but I finally went to larger vanes and it's helped arrow flight with fixed blade heads. Those are pretty small vanes you're running.

 

[Read1t48]

A friend of mine had the worst time grouping until he realized that his fletched were making contact with his Vapor Trail. All of the above advice should give you what you need to fix your problem.

 

[cuttiebrownbow]

Clearance or maybe two asshat arrows that are making you chase your tail. Make sure your arrows are squared, both ends, and they spine true.

Arrow set up is fine. I would however make sure timing is dead nuts and facial pressure is not the culprit. Also, if your front shoulder is collapsing at all that can lead to some major horizontal misses.

I like to see what my bare shaft is doing through paper. Use 3-4 arrows and see if the results are the same. They show form flaws, arrow inconsistencies and might show you that your fletchings are getting contact.

Last time I had clearance issues my bare shafts would bullet hole and my fletched arrows wouldn’t. Pretty obvious when that happens.

If it turns out it’s your tune then set centershot back to whatever is recommended. Clean up vertical tear by moving d loop or rest and then use the top hats for horizontal clean up.

If worse comes to worse and clearance isn’t an issue try three four fletch helical blazers. They will steer any broadhead.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Brizzle]

I’d try a 1” 4 blade broad head like tooth of the arrow, slick trick, micro hades etc… they’ll plane less if you’re having torque or form issues, which everyone does to some extent. Depending on what you’re hunting id even consider… dare I say it… A MECHANICAL … we’ve sold nearly 300 V3s through the shop I work at and we’ve only had to adjust the top hats on 2 to get them to tune properly, and both were 27s. Id try a couple different style broad heads before messing with the top hats.

 

[andydwyer]

Thanks for the input guys. The rain finally stopped, so I'll do some diagnosing in a couple hours and report back

Edit: NAP Spitfires (3 blade mech) also fly poorly with 4 of my 6 arrows. The 2 that fly properly work with every head

 

[sndmn11]

I'm with @Mighty Mouse on the head wobble. If you don't have a spinner, you can make one by cutting two Vs the same depth on the top edge of an open shoe box or similar.

 

[Billy Goat]

I’d try a 1” 4 blade broad head like tooth of the arrow, slick trick, micro hades etc… they’ll plane less if you’re having torque or form issues, which everyone does to some extent. Depending on what you’re hunting id even consider… dare I say it… A MECHANICAL … we’ve sold nearly 300 V3s through the shop I work at and we’ve only had to adjust the top hats on 2 to get them to tune properly, and both were 27s. Id try a couple different style broad heads before messing with the top hats.

So don't fix the problem, just change your head.


Shooting a more forgiving head isn't fixing the problem. Granted some guys do have terrible form, but that needs to be corrected.

I wouldn't recommend a bandaid on the situation, I'd recommend fixing it.


What are you considering tune properly?

 

[Wrench]

Tradlab/the push have a podcast on this topic. Interesting find was that broadheads that spin true have very little effect on arrow flight.....and fetching size and configuration play a major role in arrow flight.

 

[Brizzle]

So don't fix the problem, just change your head.


Shooting a more forgiving head isn't fixing the problem. Granted some guys do have terrible form, but that needs to be corrected.

I wouldn't recommend a bandaid on the situation, I'd recommend fixing it.


What are you considering tune properly?

Well, considering we’re 8 days into archery season here in VA, I’d just try to use what hits where I’m aiming at. I don’t think now would be the time to change much in the way of form or shooting technique. For me personally I’d try the easiest fix that doesn’t involve rebuilding my bow. I know that would make me lose confidence in my equipment. Plus I’d rather spend my time in the woods than working on my bow. And I’d consider this a properly tuned bow… broad head and field point at 40yds, they group the same out to 60 as well, never had to shoot past 20 last season. Those pictures were from when I was getting my switchback ready in case I need a backup for my V3 at any point this season

 

[Billy Goat]

Well, considering we’re 8 days into archery season here in VA, I’d just try to use what hits where I’m aiming at. I don’t think now would be the time to change much in the way of form or shooting technique. For me personally I’d try the easiest fix that doesn’t involve rebuilding my bow. I know that would make me lose confidence in my equipment. Plus I’d rather spend my time in the woods than working on my bow. And I’d consider this a properly tuned bow… broad head and field point at 40yds, they group the same out to 60 as well, never had to shoot past 20 last season. Those pictures were from when I was getting my switchback ready in case I need a backup for my V3 at any point this season

Not to be smart ass, but hopefully not waiting til somewhere in season before tuning. Tho I was caught with my pants down this year. Two days before our season opened I realized I hadn't tuned my hunting setup yet. I had been helping several others get stuff lined in and had neglected mine. Took maybe hour or hour and a half to get it dialed in. Normally doesn't take too long. I do like to shoot it several days following to make sure I wasn't having an off day with my grip tho.


I do a final tune likely just like yours, different targets, one field points, two broadhead targets. Shooting a 40cm single spot to track the group. Normally to a minimum of 60. I doubt that of 300 Mathews, it would only be 2 required top hat adjustments to achieve that, but maybe y'all get the perfect ones.



If it's go time, I guess you put a mechanical on and roll best you can. Just that's where you keep hearing about all these problems. I'm no mechanical hater, I shoot some of them, but I make sure my stuff will shoot big fixed heads as well. Straight arrow flight is where it's at.


Been several threads probably have me a bit edgy about the whole tuning deal. Might help you to see the thread I started titled FYI. Give you some context on me.