Berger bullets and other ???

[tstowater]

I started load development for the 25.06 (Remington 700 Sendero) yesterday. For those of you not familiar with the Sendero's, it has a 26 inch barrel and 1 in 10 twist. I'm aiming to use 115 grain VLD Hunting for mule deer hunting, etc. I'm dull and boring and provide no pictures.

Anyway, I started with new cases, Winchester primers and 50.8 grains of IMR 4831. Just wanted to check some comparisons so I loaded some of the Bergers, some 117 grain Hornady SST's and some 117 Sierra GameKings. These were the bullets I had handy and was curious about the results. By no means do I intend to use this particular load, but more interested in how each shot. The Hornadys and the Sierras were loaded to OAL of 3.165 and the Bergers were loaded to 3.227. None of the loads in the lands. All can be lenghtened or shortened if needs.

Results: 100 yard range from bench The last 3 Hornadys could have easily been covered with a dime. The Sierras shot in a small pile (probaby 7 in an inch) and the results were more due to the shooter than the bullet. The Sierras could have shot the dime or less also. The Bergers, well, that is another story. I wouldn't say that they were flying all over the place, but darn'd close. I'm not sure what to do with the Bergers to make them shoot better. Any suggestions? Seems that every time I want to use a fancy bullet, the "plain Jane's" shoot better. Ran into the same issue with my 300WSM and Barnes. I still need to work on my 223WSSM and some Barnes in that caliber.

I've loaded for years, so I'm not a newbie by any stretch, but just a little frustrated with this. I've got decent equipment and weighed each powder charge to eliminate that variable. This doesn't need to be a 1000 yard shooter, but just good at 500 to 600, if needed.

 

[Sam Millard]

I started load development for the 25.06 (Remington 700 Sendero) yesterday. For those of you not familiar with the Sendero's, it has a 26 inch barrel and 1 in 10 twist. I'm aiming to use 115 grain VLD Hunting for mule deer hunting, etc. I'm dull and boring and provide no pictures.

Anyway, I started with new cases, Winchester primers and 50.8 grains of IMR 4831. Just wanted to check some comparisons so I loaded some of the Bergers, some 117 grain Hornady SST's and some 117 Sierra GameKings. These were the bullets I had handy and was curious about the results. By no means do I intend to use this particular load, but more interested in how each shot. The Hornadys and the Sierras were loaded to OAL of 3.165 and the Bergers were loaded to 3.227. None of the loads in the lands. All can be lenghtened or shortened if needs.

Results: 100 yard range from bench The last 3 Hornadys could have easily been covered with a dime. The Sierras shot in a small pile (probaby 7 in an inch) and the results were more due to the shooter than the bullet. The Sierras could have shot the dime or less also. The Bergers, well, that is another story. I wouldn't say that they were flying all over the place, but darn'd close. I'm not sure what to do with the Bergers to make them shoot better. Any suggestions? Seems that every time I want to you a fancy bullet, the "plain Jane's shoot better. Ran into the same issue with my 300WSM and Barnes. I still need to work on my 223WSSM and some Barnes in that caliber.

I've loaded for years, so I'm not a newbie by any stretch, but just a little frustrated with this. I've got decent equipment and weighed each powder charge to eliminate that variable. This doesn't need to be a 1000 yard shooter, but just good at 500 to 600, if needed.

What's wrong with the Sierra or Hornady loads? I've killed out over 800 with variations of both of those bullets. They work just fine! The Sierra has always been the easiest bullet for me to get an accurate load from, and the AMAX/SST have been easy as well. I would also take a hard look at a plain old Hornady SP Interlock. Killed several bears, elk, and deer with those in 30, 338, and 270.

Bergers are good bullets, but if your rifle likes the others better, shoot 'em! 5-600 yards will be a piece of cake for them...

 

[tstowater]

Sam: nothing wrong with either of the Sierras or Hornadys. I believe both are very good bullets and my confidence level is quite high with both of them. Frankly, the easiest thing to do is pick one and go. I just like the thought that the Bergers could be a flatter shooting bullet. I just would like to know what I need to do different to get the Bergers to shoot. I'm trying to solve a problem that I'm running into on several guns. I know I can change: brass, primers, powders, seating depth, powder charges and maybe other things. I'm just not sure where to begin. I would like to give the Bergers a fair shake before abandoning them for this gun. I have another 25.06 so maybe I should see if it likes the Bergers. Maybe I'm expecting an easy fix that isn't easy. As well as the Sierras and Hornadys shot sure makes you want to know what the Bergers could do if you got them dialed in.

 

[Stid2677]

IMHO Bergers are VERY sensitive to seating, Berger has instructions for finding an alternate accuracy node. Basically, if you can't seat them near the lands, try .040, .080 and .120 from the lands and see which shoots best and adjust from there.

http://www.eabco.com/Berger Bullet Jump Seating Method.html

 

[Sam Millard]

Sam: nothing wrong with either of the Sierras or Hornadys. I believe both are very good bullets and my confidence level is quite high with both of them. Frankly, the easiest thing to do is pick one and go. I just like the thought that the Bergers could be a flatter shooting bullet. I just would like to know what I need to do different to get the Bergers to shoot. I'm trying to solve a problem that I'm running into on several guns. I know I can change: brass, primers, powders, seating depth, powder charges and maybe other things. I'm just not sure where to begin. I would like to give the Bergers a fair shake before abandoning them for this gun. I have another 25.06 so maybe I should see if it likes the Bergers. Maybe I'm expecting an easy fix that isn't easy. As well as the Sierras and Hornadys shot sure makes you want to know what the Bergers could do if you got them dialed in.

All of these bullets have different diameters, jacket composition, bearing surface length, etc. While I certainly understand the attraction to Bergers, they don't shoot well in some barrels. I had a 338Edge that I wasted 60 shots through trying to get them to shoot as well as SMKs. It just didn't like them!

If your groups are over 1.5" with them, but cloverleafs with the other bullets, I doubt seating depth will get you where you want to be. I would try a different powder/charge to change up the harmonics.

 

[tstowater]

I'm going to try all of them with 52 grains of the IMR4831 and see if that makes a difference. If helping, I will try more powder, but the only other powder that I would likely use is IMR4350 or H4350. Not looking to dump more than 53 grains of the 4831 in a case. Thanks for the suggestions. BTW, the Sierras and Hornadys would likely come close to "one holing" if the operator (me) could shoot better.

 

[HOT ROD]

I am no expert. But I have found the bergers like a lot of jump. At least in my 243 and 270wsm. But every gun is different.

 

[tstowater]

I'll see what happens if I make them jump some more. Seems opposite of what it should be. Thanks guys.

 

[16Bore]

Seems VLD's like to be in the lands. I always start everything at the lands and let the groups tell you where to go. Two together, one out usually means go shorter. Triangles go longer. If you start at the lands, there's only one direction to go.

 

[Wapiti_Harvest]

An article from Berger you might find helpful..in short it says you have to jam them in the rifling or really jump them to get accuracy, the "middle ground" of seating depths opens the group up.


http://www.bergerbullets.com/getting-the-best-precision-and-accuracy-from-vld-bullets-in-your-rifle/

 

[tstowater]

I'll try both ways and see what happens.