Ballistics questions

Chad44

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
195
Location
Castle rock, co
I have been shooting long range for two years now but haven't hunted long range yet. I have a few questions. First I'm wondering about the G7 ballistic program. I like being able to verify my ballistics. But haven't done this yet. I have always used my phone for it and don't want to have to rely on a battery during a week long hunt. When printing off the range card how do you know what temp/pressure you be in? In September the temp can go from low 30s to 70s. Also the elevation can rise/fall 1000 feet. Do you just take several different papers with?
Thanks
 
I prob won't go farther then 600 tho. I'm not planning on actually making this a long range hunt but if I can't get close then I'm comfortable at 700 on game if everything is right
 
Temp is generally related to elevation. Pressure isn't that big of a deal ballistically because it is also dependent on elevation.

Pick the elevation either in the middle of the range your hunting or where you are likely to be shooting. Pick temperature also most likely or average. Elevation is more significant, but a 1000' isn't much.

If a flat shooting cartridge being used, you will still kill your animal at 700 yards and less.

Either bring a couple drop charts or bring the main one, but be knowledgeable about other variables you talked about. For instance, 700 yards and a 1000' lower may just need 1/2 minute, which is only 3.5" and that still kills.
 
I keep a cheat sheet taped to my 7WSM for shots out to 500. I keep drop charts laminated with contact paper spread throughout my gear for whatever season I'm in. I run one set for deer season (Nov.-Dec. 3000 feet/35 degrees), Spring and fall bear, elk, etc. requires two cards for the long shots (over 1k) because of the pressure differences from 4000 to 5500 feet. If you study your drops on whatever program you are using, you will come up with one or two cards that will cover most variables for a killing shot out to 800 pretty easily...once you build them, go out and shoot to verify.
 
Temp is generally related to elevation. Pressure isn't that big of a deal ballistically because it is also dependent on elevation.
I must disagree.
Pressure deviation is exactly what affects how a bullet flies. More dense air= more resistance to the bullet=more drop.

Temperature alone has no bearing on how a bullet flies, other than how it might affect a temperature sensitive powder's burn rate and subsequent velocity deviation.

And elevation affects ballistics due to the pressure difference at changing altitudes. The higher you are, the lower the barometric pressure. But hotter or colder air alone will not affect bullet flight, only air pressure does!

Many ballistic apps calculate pressure by elevation, temp & rel. humidity. But if you had to rely on one unit of measure to base a ballistic chart from, it would be barometric pressure measured in real time.

Lots of shooters do this and it is very simple to apply. When inputting data into a ballistic app, set your ELEVATION TO "0". Then, read actual pressure from your shooting position with a Kestrel. Then enter that actual measured pressure as "station pressure" in the app. That way, the app does not need to "calculate"pressure, cuz you just gave it an accurate measured value from your shooting position...

If I were shooting long range at different elevations, I'd use proven data from an app at a measured atmospheric conditions as a baseline. Then, enter the real time station pressure at the time of the shot for the app to correct for the difference in pressure. Temp and elevation inputs won't matter if you have station pressure measured...

A second way to correct for pressure changes us to use Density Altitude. The higher end Kestrel units can calculate DA, and you can make a ballistic chart using DA to compensate for elevation (read pressure) changes during a high altitude hunt. Lots of good "how to" reading on DA and station pressure, if you are interested.

Good shooting...
 
Kmd, I think same results though. Accurate elevation, which I think is much easier to determine from a map, watch or others will give you pressure extremely close to actual pressure. I don't know if everyone runs a kestrel, but most have map, GPS or watch to get location. Higher you are less air resistance or pressure and opposite lower.

Same same for me and I can get it done without extra device or relying on a device at all.

I am shooting animals and a click or two is 4 or 5" at the most from 800-1000 yards.

Wind will generally determine if I kill it or not as that is the hardest to read.
 
I must disagree.
Pressure deviation is exactly what affects how a bullet flies. More dense air= more resistance to the bullet=more drop.

Temperature alone has no bearing on how a bullet flies, other than how it might affect a temperature sensitive powder's burn rate and subsequent velocity deviation.

And elevation affects ballistics due to the pressure difference at changing altitudes. The higher you are, the lower the barometric pressure. But hotter or colder air alone will not affect bullet flight, only air pressure does!

Many ballistic apps calculate pressure by elevation, temp & rel. humidity. But if you had to rely on one unit of measure to base a ballistic chart from, it would be barometric pressure measured in real time.

Lots of shooters do this and it is very simple to apply. When inputting data into a ballistic app, set your ELEVATION TO "0". Then, read actual pressure from your shooting position with a Kestrel. Then enter that actual measured pressure as "station pressure" in the app. That way, the app does not need to "calculate"pressure, cuz you just gave it an accurate measured value from your shooting position...

If I were shooting long range at different elevations, I'd use proven data from an app at a measured atmospheric conditions as a baseline. Then, enter the real time station pressure at the time of the shot for the app to correct for the difference in pressure. Temp and elevation inputs won't matter if you have station pressure measured...

A second way to correct for pressure changes us to use Density Altitude. The higher end Kestrel units can calculate DA, and you can make a ballistic chart using DA to compensate for elevation (read pressure) changes during a high altitude hunt. Lots of good "how to" reading on DA and station pressure, if you are interested.

Good shooting...

Lets make some clarifications here... You cannot get an atmospheric shooting condition from station pressure alone. Temperature does play a big role as well. When you combine humidity, station pressure, and temperature, THEN you get a Density Altitude reading which is the only SOLO factor I know of where you can get an accurate ballistic drop from. DA is an overall air density measurement, station pressure is only the barometric setting at your elevation. Some ballistics programs have two different settings. One that uses elevation and other station pressure. My ballistic program won't let you use both, only one or the other. I use station pressure.

In my experience, at any given elevation, station pressure stays pretty consistent throughout a wide range of conditions. For example check this link: http://graphbarometer.com/?x=KDEN&y=Denver Intnl Arpt, CO
Over a 7 day period the barometric pressure at that 'station' fluctuated a whopping 0.5"! But I bet if you had the temperature curves for that same station they would fluctuate MUCH more.

To put into perspective, my 300 Norma at 80* F, 27" station pressure, 50% humidity (small factor here until you get into ELR situations) has a drop of 200.68" or 5.6 Mils.

When you change that temp setting to 20* F you get 208.34" of drop or 5.8 Mils. That is just changing a temperature. Temperature does have a good bit of an effect on the overall DENSITY of the air which affects bullet flight. As you said temp DOESN'T affect PRESSURE, but it DOES affect DENSITY.

Carry on... :)

Mike
 
I agree, HellsCanyon.
Was addressing Rosinbag's notion that temperature and elevation being related. They are not.

My point was, to answer the OP's question, elevation (altitude) is not needed to correct for. You can forget the altitude altogether if you have an accurate pressure measurement (station pressure).
Unlike ambient temperature, it's pretty hard to guess the air pressure, which is specifically why I advocate getting a good, accurate measurement of it before the shot. And to streamline things, having that 'station pressure' negates any need for altitude info altogether. It just doesn't matter if you know the station pressure at the time of the shot...

As stated above, you CAN have a ballistic app "calculate" what your pressure should be at ______feet above sea level, and prolly be OK, too. But, its just too easy to use my Kestrel to get a wind reading to swag off of, and an accurate station pressure & ambient temperature to input into my ballistic program before the shot. Altitude never enters the equation and is set to "0"...

Hope that clarifies things.

Good shooting!
 
I can never figure out how you are to recal my dang kestrel. It seems like you need to know your elevation or Bari pressure to do it so I just stopped messing with it and use the elevation on my gps. To get an accurate cal on it you have to know one or the other it seems.
 
That is what makes using measured station pressure so easy! You don't have to re-calibrate altitude, just set it to "0 feet". Then whatever pressure your Kestrel measures is your ACTUAL station pressure! Doing this simplifies the info you need to enter into your app. and altitude becomes a complete non-factor when you have the actual air pressure at your shooting location.
As Hells Canyon described above, you ballistic app is constantly trying to solve for the density of the air, by taking into account all atmospheric conditions. By setting altitude to "0" and using station pressure, you are just streamlining the data entry process. Granted, this is not the only way of getting an adjusted dope for unfamiliar territory, but it is it the easiest way I've found to do it. Short of using DA, that is, which not all portable weather stations provide data for. So keep things simple, set your altitude to "0" and rock on...

This link provides an excellent explanation:

http://www.arcanamavens.com/LBSFiles/Shooting/Downloads/Baro/


Good shooting!
 
It is built for them. You enter all you data to include your zero and elevation your turret is built for and it recalculated everything to current yardage, pressure, etc to then dial your current turret info to. Idiot proof and works for every situation you can encounter.
 
Ah gotcha I forgot they had that option. I was thinkin they just gave you an appropriate callout in minutes instead of for your turret gradients. It's too bad they don't make the G7 in MILS or I might consider one sometime down the road.

Mike
 
Mike, they are working on a MILS software update due out in January.

Also potential for a compass upgrade to calculate coriolis affect. That is probably not going to be a software update though, but a newer model.
 
Mike, they are working on a MILS software update due out in January.

Also potential for a compass upgrade to calculate coriolis affect. That is probably not going to be a software update though, but a newer model.

Sounds pretty sweet! Hard to beat it for a hunting setup that's for sure!

Mike
 
It is built for them. You enter all you data to include your zero and elevation your turret is built for and it recalculated everything to current yardage, pressure, etc to then dial your current turret info to. Idiot proof and works for every situation you can encounter.

Does it have the ability to enter wind?
 
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