B.C. resident hunters livid

[kawdy]

Hello all,

As the title suggests B.C. resident hunters have been let down by our own government. There is now a grassroots movement to reverse our current governments decision. The BCWF (B.C. wildlife federation) is the organization that promotes conservation and hunters rights in BC. but they are a not for profit organization and are unable to get involved politically to the extent that is required now. This is why I and others will be contacting you through the various forums supported by hunters. I am in no way affiliated with the BCWF. I need to state this as our largest forum for hunters in B.C. is the HBC, huntingbc.ca and already a letter has been received from a lawyer threatening the mods with slander. I assume this is from one of the members of the GOABC and they are unhappy with and concerned about the average Joe Hunter pressuring the government to reverse it's decision.

The GOABC (guide outfitters of B.C.) have succesfully lobbied the government of B.C. to dramatically increase their quota on certain species (big dollar animals) at the expense of the resident hunter. 40 % of sheep/grizzly and goat in the north have been allocated to the outfitters of the GOABC and up to 25 % of other species. Considering that the average allotment to non residents in the USA and Canada is between 5-10 % this hurts. We are concerned about the future of hunting for our children when commerical interest takes precedent over the citizens interest. We can't match the financial contributions to the government that the GOABC makes and we don't have the ability to sway government policy in the same organized manner of a consortium, such as the GOABC. What we do have is thousands of betrayed hunters with fire in our belly.

What I ask of you my American brothers is to ask yourself how would you feel or react if a decision was made such as this in your state. Would you sit idly by or would you do something about it. PLEASE do not book any hunts with members of the GOABC at the Reno convention next week or at any other time until this issue is resolved to the satisfaction of the B.C. residents. Remember the Yukon has stones sheep as well.

If you do happen to find yourself on a guided hunt in B.C. this year, have no fear, you will be welcomed by the B.C. resident hunter as hunter and friend with common shared interests and values, however the man sitting beside you on the horse may have a very frosty welcome from this hunter.

Please take some time to educate yourself on this issue by visiting the huntingbc.ca site and reading the various threads.

Now as I suggested before, the lawyers are following our efforts and I'm afraid they will engage with litigious law suits. So hear is my disclaimer. All comments are opinion only and I make no claim to the accuracy or completness of any facts or figures I have provided. As I said please educate yourself.

thanks kindly,

Kawdy

 

[lee peet]

Well done kawdy! I to am a bc resident hunter and furious over the new allocation alotment in BC. I hope we gain the support of fellow resident hunters, no matter were you are a resident as we would do for them!

Like you mentioned might be an unenjoyable time to be around a GO and a resident hunter on the same mtn.

 

[Beef_Slayer]

I tried visiting the site but it said that the admin blocked my IP address so I can't view anything on the site. I would also be infuriated. We have had similar issues with local govt here in ky. Which we over threw so good luck. I have been looking at outfitters in bc for bighorns and bein from the states I have no choice but to use one. I definitely do not agree with it by no means I would rather have to wait several years to go than take tags from the true outdoorsmen and supporters of the great resources that ur country has to offer. I wish y'all the best of luck. Keep it out there. Via internet social media news whatever it takes. Remember the silent majority is irrelevant so don't be the silent majority.

Best of luck

 

[beachbunny]

good luck to you all! sounds like a real raw deal for you actual tax payers as opposed to tourists carrying guns. sorry.

 

[Rackmastr]

I tried visiting the site but it said that the admin blocked my IP address so I can't view anything on the site. I would also be infuriated. We have had similar issues with local govt here in ky. Which we over threw so good luck. I have been looking at outfitters in bc for bighorns and bein from the states I have no choice but to use one. I definitely do not agree with it by no means I would rather have to wait several years to go than take tags from the true outdoorsmen and supporters of the great resources that ur country has to offer. I wish y'all the best of luck. Keep it out there. Via internet social media news whatever it takes. Remember the silent majority is irrelevant so don't be the silent majority.

Best of luck

The other huge consideration with booking a BC bighorn hunt after these changes is they have made changes that will have unlimited quota on non-resident sheep in the Kootenay region. What this translates to is several outfitters can book as many sheep hunts as they wish, attempting to fill their pocketbooks. Several of these outfits who offer bighorn hunts for sale have a very low success rate, and IMO hunt quality will decline in the region.

This would have a MAJOR impact if I was a non-resident hunter booking a sheep hunt in BC upcoming.

 

[kawdy]

Thanks for the support beef_slayer. I have emailed the mods at the HBC site to enquiry a work around in order for you to access the site. Travelling to the US for work I too have had issues accessing the site.

When the time comes for your bighorn hunt I can't suggest strongly enough to do everything possible to access the site, even signing up for a virtual IP address in Canada. Not all Guide Outfitters are equal, I'm not saying they aren't professionally run outfits but they all don't have numbers of animals in their areas that I would pay big bucks for. In Canada as opposed to the US, Guide Outfitters have exclusive rights to guide in their own territory and no other guide can compete. This also means they can't cross into a competing outfiters area. I can't confirm the numbers as others will be able to on HBC but you may just be paying for a very expensive backcountry hike. There are a few goods ones with decent population densities, you just need local knowledge to steer you to the good ones. There are a bunch of super hard core sheep hunters that access the HBC forum, they won't point anyone to their secret spots but I'm sure they could guide you to the succesful outfitters.

Stones sheep on the other hand have a much more robust population and there are a number of very good outfits I could suggest once the dust has settled on this
issue.

 

[kawdy]

Here is a way to access the site.

Quote Originally Posted by kawdy View Post
On a seperate note, mods, any guidance to our southern neighbours on how to access the forum when their IP is banned. This has happened to myself as well while travelling. A work around for myself has been a virtual IP but is not feasible for many.

I use hola. It's a free, simple, easy to use program that puts you anywhere in the world, all from the confines of your own home. http://hola.org/

 

[lee peet]

Thanks beef slayer, don't forget to look at alberta for a bighorn hunt. Far more sheep, better quality and success rate. And not in such termoil as far as GO and resident hunters.

 

[Kayjayess]

I tried visiting the site but it said that the admin blocked my IP address so I can't view anything on the site. I would also be infuriated. We have had similar issues with local govt here in ky. Which we over threw so good luck. I have been looking at outfitters in bc for bighorns and bein from the states I have no choice but to use one. I definitely do not agree with it by no means I would rather have to wait several years to go than take tags from the true outdoorsmen and supporters of the great resources that ur country has to offer. I wish y'all the best of luck. Keep it out there. Via internet social media news whatever it takes. Remember the silent majority is irrelevant so don't be the silent majority.

Best of luck

Beef Slayer.

Thanks for the show of support and understanding. BC resident hunters have really been sold down the river with this new deal and support from our American brothers means a lot. We are hoping we can sort this loss of our rights out and work together with the outfitting industry in the future so that everyone can enjoy our fabulous wildlife resource in BC. As one other poster stated keep in mind the tremendous opportunities available in Alberta for Bighorn in the interim.

 

[Beef_Slayer]

Kawdy, lee peet, and kayjayess I sent y'all a pm.

Once again good luck on the fight keep it up.

 

[mt100gr.]

I hate to see it go that direction anywhere. Montana experienced the opposite a few years back. A ballot initiative was passed that made outfitters play by the same rules as residents as far as when they draw a tag or have an outfitters tag available for which they can book a hunt. This definitely cut into their bottom line and was not popular among the outfitters but it was a win for resident hunters here.

In my opinion, when big piles of out of state cash buy only a few licenses it begs the question: would more non-resident licenses bring more money? NOT GOOD. of course they would, and at the resident hunters expense.

Sound wildlife management is one thing, but whenever a gov't puts financial gains ahead of the interests of RESIDENTS (constituents) it only furthers the notion that one day, only the rich will have hunting opportunities.

 

[bbags1]

Definitely a raw deal.
Alaska is also experiencing the unfairness of having 40% of their sheep go to non residents.
Not fair when residents are pushed aside in favor of maximizing the money government can generate from wildlife.

 

[lee peet]

Definitely a raw deal.
Alaska is also experiencing the unfairness of having 40% of their sheep go to non residents.
Not fair when residents are pushed aside in favor of maximizing the money government can generate from wildlife.

The real bummer with this new deal is in the past bc has had a 60/40 split for sheep but now our tiny population of rocky mtn bighorns in BC is being put on a GOS for outfitters alowing them to sell as many hunts as they can no matter how low there success rates are or sheep numbers are. Definetly not a good time to buy a guided bighorn hunt in BC, or until this is sorted out.

It's a real shame to see financial gains for a very small group be given a higher regard then wildlife management.

 

[AXEL]

One aspect of this entire imbroglio that may/should concern US hunters is the inevitable, growing and increasingly forceful opposition to ANY American hunting here in BC. This situation reminds me of the late '90s, when an immigrant and self-admitted Communist from India, used a loophole in Canadian political/legal policy, became Premier of BC and instantly closed the Grizzly hunt here....except for a racially-based minority.

This, came about due to public concern over the Grizzly population of BC and while this is actually GREATER than 50 years ago, the usual urbanized, trendy and ill-informed public set up a hullabaloo and this character capitalized on it. I suspect that much the same sort of largely baseless decision WILL happen in respect of "non-resident alien" hunting here as the public learns of the details of this chicanery.......

WHAT, to do, well, strong support for the BC res. hunter from ALL hunters in North America, will probably help a lot and also may well initiate and build a level of cooperation among all of us that could very well result in MUCH better hunting here in BC for we residents AND even some "hunter host" programmes such as Alberta offers foreign hunters......

Worth serious thought, IMO.

 

[Wasatchbuck]

Tell me how I can help and I will! Every time I think about booking a dall sheep hunt in Alaska it sickens me at the price. I think it has gotten way out of hand. The cost alone of what a stone sheep hunt costs tells me that I will never be able to kill one, I simply cannot justify that kind of money for any one animal. I understand that outfitters need to make money too but the costs of what they are charging is outrageous. Now resident hunters are losing ground to make way for more profits for the outfitters. We fight a similar battle here in Utah with organizations like SFW and all the expo tags. Seriously, tell me how I can help and I will.

 

[kawdy]

Wastatchbuck, Thanks for support. As I mentioned in my opening post, a grassroots movement has started. A number of individuals have signed up for an information campaign they have taken responsibility for various jurisdictions in the US, apparently Europe and specifically Germany are in the works. Where you could help and all those so similarily inclined in the US, is by just talking to all your sportsmans buddies and letting them know this is a hot button topic here at the moment and keeping our efforts alive by not booking a hunt with the GOABC until this issue is resolved. If I could ask you to go one step further, I would ask you to post a leaflet at your local gun/wildlife club. That would be fantastic. A few of us are meeting shortly to draft a information leaflet that encapsulates all our concerns and objectives. I will post it here when it is finalized.

 

[norsepeak]

It's even worse here in Washington, there is NO non-resident cap on tags...theoretically non-residents could draw every single special tag in the state! Of course this is statistically nearly impossible, but it sure does hurt the local resident hunters' chances of drawing specials tags, especially the once in a lifetime tags. So I feel your pain.

 

[RedStag]

the GOABC is effectively going after our stone sheep opportunity as well as big horn, we are certainly being attacked on all sides. The new allocation also drastically reduced our annual allowable harvest for thinhorns, this will be a precursor to them putting us on a limited entry tag system.
We have a rally tomorrow outside our premiers office, I will be there, as well as my hunting friends and family.

 

[Hunt365]

By bringing our current situation to light, the BC resident hunters are not trying to deter NR hunters, we are trying to protect them. This decision will undoubtedly lower the quality of both the hunting experience and the caliber of animals to be harvested. Allowing GO's to sell more hunts than legal animals in an area is criminal in my opinion. NR hunters paying $30-40K deserve better than this. This taints our entire Province. If I paid $40K to go on a hunt and found out I was hunter #6 in an area that held no more than 3-5 legal rams per year, I would be pissed. You'd never see me back in that region again, because I would not only blame the GO, but I would blame the Government that allowed this to happen.

Please be diligent and do your research if you plan on sheep hunting in BC, this being especially true if you can't afford multiple $30-40K guided sheep hunts.

Any of you high paying, non resident hunters that feel they want to contribute to the fight to protect the future of sheep hunting in BC for everyone, feel free to write a letter to our Guide Outfitter Association of BC and our BC Premier Christy Clark, expressing your thoughts on these two groups effectively stealing your money by selling hunts for animals that don't exist.

For the record, so I'm clear, I wish all the NR hunters that travel to BC nothing but the best of luck and hope they have the experience of a lifetime. I enjoy hunting outside of BC as a NR hunter and have no problem sharing our beautiful province and magical sheep with others. I just want the system to be fair and want our sheep to be protected and preserved for future generations.

 

[Weldor]

Good luck Brothers. Follow the money!