Archery Question? Change arrows in July?

[arcticpig]

How's it going. Have a question. I currently have a Matthews v3x 33 draw weight 70 draw length 28 and 1/2. Currently I have axis 5mm 340 29 1/8" arrows with 16 HIT inserts 100g tip 3 fletched. Running a spot hog 5 pin also. I'm running low on arrows unfortunately and don't know if I should stick with what I have or get a 300 spine with a 50 insert up front. I'm planning on doing archery in Colorado begining of September for elk. I would also like to do a black bear hunt if I have time and white tail in the north east. I'm going to try to hunt all different big game and small game.

My main question is number one what do you think about a heavier arrow shooting in places out west for big game? Is the added weight going to slow down the arrow too much for 50 and 60 yard shots?

Also is it too late in the year to be switching arrows? Should I just stick with 340s and next year change it up? I would like to not drop money on something I know is going to change.

I hope I'm not forgetting any info but if I am let me know.

 

[ddavis_1313]

If the spine is correct for your current set up (which from memory you are probably on the fence between 340 and 300) and it groups well and you’re confident in your set up then I wouldn’t change regardless.

I shoot a rx3. 71.5#, 28 DL, 300 spine axis arrow, aluminum insert and 125 grains up front with 3 fletch 13% FOC. 470 grains at 282 fps. Blows through elk and whitetail including a pass through heart shot on a whitetail at 81 yards with a rage trypan.

I killed an elk with a halon 5 and 340 spine arrows. 55 yard shot with him walking. Smoked him straight through the meatiest part of his front shoulders. Complete pass through. Same arrow weight, same speed with 16% foc, same result. Dead elk.

My wife shoots a rx4. 26” DL, 68.5# draw weight, 430 grains at 252 FPS and 15% foc.

Bull elk broad side and complete pass through at 22 yards. Bull died in less than 200 yards.

Moral of the story, people have killed elk and deer with a hell of a lot far less technology, arrow speed, front of center, etc. just put a quality cut on contact head on (preferably with bleeders) and make sure your bow is tuned. Then just go make the shot.

Don’t over think it.

However I’ll stress it again. Make sure your bow is tuned and the spine is correct for those arrows on your setup otherwise it will not tune and you will not get those broadheads to group with field points.


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[WCB]

Will it slow it down yes...will you still be able to kill stuff at 50-60yds yes. Out west with an already adequate set up would I change it...probably not.

just guessing at what fletchings your current setup is 463ish grains and the new arrows would be about 54 grains heavier?..so 517gr? Just doing the quick calculations (please correct me if I am wrong) I believe the heavier arrows will be about 18-20fps slower resulting in about 8" more drop at 50 and 11ish inches at 60yds. Just for the fact I have seen a bunch of elk spook while the archer is at full draw and a quick estimate had to be made on the yardage to get a shot off I'd stay with what you have as the lighter arrow is a bit flatter. Only contradiction to this is...I have also seen way more guys shoot high on or over elk than I have seen shoot low or under them.

Short answer you could change arrows a week before going on a hunt and be find. Just as long as the are tunable and you have time to shoot them to distance to make a tape for your sight. Practice is for you not the bow to relearn arrow flight. Since you are regularly shooting you should be practiced up.

Also, what is your reasoning for wanting a heavier arrow? For things like penetration at those distances you could get a similar result just changing your broadhead. And again your arrow setup itself is more than adequate.

 

[ddavis_1313]

Oh, for the record the 55 yard bull was shot with a slick trick. The other two with iron will. In my opinion, there are less expensive broad heads besides iron will that are equally as good if not better. I was very pleased with the slick trick. It was a 1” standard. I bought iron will off the hype. They are amazing heads for sure. But not quite worth the price in my opinion.


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[ddavis_1313]

Will it slow it down yes...will you still be able to kill stuff at 50-60yds yes. Out west with an already adequate set up would I change it...probably not.

just guessing at what fletchings your current setup is 463ish grains and the new arrows would be about 54 grains heavier?..so 517gr? Just doing the quick calculations (please correct me if I am wrong) I believe the heavier arrows will be about 18-20fps slower resulting in about 8" more drop at 50 and 11ish inches at 60yds. Just for the fact I have seen a bunch of elk spook while the archer is at full draw and a quick estimate had to be made on the yardage to get a shot off I'd stay with what you have as the lighter arrow is a bit flatter. Only contradiction to this is...I have also seen way more guys shoot high on or over elk than I have seen shoot low or under them.

Short answer you could change arrows a week before going on a hunt and be find. Just as long as the are tunable and you have time to shoot them to distance to make a tape for your sight. Practice is for you not the bow to relearn arrow flight. Since you are regularly shooting you should be practiced up.

Also, what is your reasoning for wanting a heavier arrow? For things like penetration at those distances you could get a similar result just changing your broadhead. And again your arrow setup itself is more than adequate.

Solid advice


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[arcticpig]

If the spine is correct for your current set up (which from memory you are probably on the fence between 340 and 300) and it groups well and you’re confident in your set up then I wouldn’t change regardless.

I shoot a rx3. 71.5#, 28 DL, 300 spine axis arrow, aluminum insert and 125 grains up front with 3 fletch 13% FOC. 470 grains at 282 fps. Blows through elk and whitetail including a pass through heart shot on a whitetail at 81 yards with a rage trypan.

I killed an elk with a halon 5 and 340 spine arrows. 55 yard shot with him walking. Smoked him straight through the meatiest part of his front shoulders. Complete pass through. Same arrow weight, same speed with 16% foc, same result. Dead elk.

My wife shoots a rx4. 26” DL, 68.5# draw weight, 430 grains at 252 FPS and 15% foc.

Bull elk broad side and complete pass through at 22 yards. Bull died in less than 200 yards.

Moral of the story, people have killed elk and deer with a hell of a lot far less technology, arrow speed, front of center, etc. just put a quality cut on contact head on (preferably with bleeders) and make sure your bow is tuned. Then just go make the shot.

Don’t over think it.

However I’ll stress it again. Make sure your bow is tuned and the spine is correct for those arrows on your setup otherwise it will not tune and you will not get those broadheads to group with field points.


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That's the thing. My broadheads seem to be going left unless I lower my bow 4 pounds. I'm shooting ramcats. So I'm thinking I might be a little under spined.

 

[ddavis_1313]

That's the thing. My broadheads seem to be going left unless I lower my bow 4 pounds. I'm shooting ramcats. So I'm thinking I might be a little under spined.

I’ll run your setup in archers advantage


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[ddavis_1313]

What is your current arrow speed and what kind of fletching do you have? What nocks are you using?


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[ddavis_1313]

What is your current arrow speed and what kind of fletching do you have? What nocks are you using?


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[arcticpig]

That's the thing. My broadheads seem to be going left unless I lower my bow 4 pounds. I'm shooting ramcats. So I'm thinking I might be a little under spined.

I haven't shot

Will it slow it down yes...will you still be able to kill stuff at 50-60yds yes. Out west with an already adequate set up would I change it...probably not.

just guessing at what fletchings your current setup is 463ish grains and the new arrows would be about 54 grains heavier?..so 517gr? Just doing the quick calculations (please correct me if I am wrong) I believe the heavier arrows will be about 18-20fps slower resulting in about 8" more drop at 50 and 11ish inches at 60yds. Just for the fact I have seen a bunch of elk spook while the archer is at full draw and a quick estimate had to be made on the yardage to get a shot off I'd stay with what you have as the lighter arrow is a bit flatter. Only contradiction to this is...I have also seen way more guys shoot high on or over elk than I have seen shoot low or under them.

Short answer you could change arrows a week before going on a hunt and be find. Just as long as the are tunable and you have time to shoot them to distance to make a tape for your sight. Practice is for you not the bow to relearn arrow flight. Since you are regularly shooting you should be practiced up.

Also, what is your reasoning for wanting a heavier arrow? For things like penetration at those distances you could get a similar result just changing your broadhead. And again your arrow setup itself is more than adequate.

I am shooting ramcats and they are going left. Field points are grouping nice. Bow seems tuned. I'm just getting back into archery. Probably flung 25 arrows a day minimum for a couple months now though. I don't think it's my grip. I tried different arrows and different broadheads and lowing my poundage to 66 helped. Maybe it was a coincidence and that helped my form since the draw was lower?

What is your current arrow speed and what kind of fletching do you have? What nocks are you using?


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Not sure of the fletching. Pro shop built them. Right about 2 degrees 3 fletch 2 inch fletching. Nocks are just regular (not lighted). No markings on either. And I don't know my arrow speed either unfortunately. I'm planning to buy a blitz jig and start making my own arrows so this helps a bunch just learning. Sorry for not being more helpful. Thanks for all your help.

 

[ddavis_1313]

That's the thing. My broadheads seem to be going left unless I lower my bow 4 pounds. I'm shooting ramcats. So I'm thinking I might be a little under spined.

I can’t get the spine reading without the info requested.


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[arcticpig]

Just called him. Q2i fusion 2 vanes and Easton x nocks

 

[ddavis_1313]

I haven't shot

I am shooting ramcats and they are going left. Field points are grouping nice. Bow seems tuned. I'm just getting back into archery. Probably flung 25 arrows a day minimum for a couple months now though. I don't think it's my grip. I tried different arrows and different broadheads and lowing my poundage to 66 helped. Maybe it was a coincidence and that helped my form since the draw was lower?

Not sure of the fletching. Pro shop built them. Right about 2 degrees 3 fletch 2 inch fletching. Nocks are just regular (not lighted). No markings on either. And I don't know my arrow speed either unfortunately. I'm planning to buy a blitz jig and start making my own arrows so this helps a bunch just learning. Sorry for not being more helpful. Thanks for all your help.

Without current arrow speed I have no way of running your info through archers advantage software accurately. I would never buy/build arrows without double checking the data first. I’ve had a shop send me out the door with a nock left tear saying good enough bc bullets holes aren’t that important. Took me a week and learning how to use archers advance to find out I was way under spined at 340 and needed 300. Kinda not what you’d expect when you drop 1500 on a carbon bow and the guy that sold it to you is supposed to be the Hoyt expert. Honestly, I usually just take my bow in and tell them what I want done and how I want it. Most of the guys that work at a bow shop are f’king clueless about tuning bows and only care about selling you one and getting you out the door so they can sell another. It’s pathetic customer survice. it’s only positive in a business model of seeing as many customers in a day as possible.


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[ddavis_1313]

If I had your data I could run it in the program and see where you are. If it needs to be tweaked I can make adjustments for your current arrows so when you buy new ones you know ow where to make changes.

If you wanted heavier arrows with inserts I could build those out then you know ow exactly what you need and can just tell them how to build them.

Also, if your BH’s are hitting left with your current setup then it’s one of two things. Either your underpinned or your bow is out of tune. I’m not too familiar with that Mathews but I don’t think it has yoke cables like mine. I have to yoke tune to get mine exact. Depending on your rest you could make micro adjustments to the right and see if that closes the gap between the BH and field point. With that said, don’t do this if you aren’t sure what I’m talking about or if your rest isn’t capable of micro adjustments. Furthermore, 4” is a long ways at 20 yards for difference in POI. It would make a lot more sense that your arrows are currently under spined vs your bow being way the hell out of tune. But then again, a majority of guys that work at bow shops….. f’king clueless.


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[Mighty Mouse]

I am shooting ramcats and they are going left. Field points are grouping nice. Bow seems tuned. I'm just getting back into archery. Probably flung 25 arrows a day minimum for a couple months now though. I don't think it's my grip. I tried different arrows and different broadheads and lowing my poundage to 66 helped. Maybe it was a coincidence and that helped my form since the draw was lower?

How many inches left and at what yardage? What is the centershot measurement of your rest (i.e., horizontal distance from inside of riser to centerline of arrow)? Mathews recommends a centershot measurement of 13/16" ± 1/16". If your rest is already close to that, you might be able to bring broadheads and field points together simply by shifting your rest a bit to the left. If you have to go far above/below 13/16", you should look into adjusting your top hats. Below are some handy reference charts for tuning.


Spine charts/calculators are going to say you're on the weak side at your specs, but all spine calcs are approximations based on rules of thumb, not precise requirements for good arrow flight. Compound bows can typically handle a fairly wide range of spines, and I think you should be able to get your 340's to work. If you did want to stiffen the dynamic spine of your current arrows, trim them down a bit. With a 28.5" draw length, you should be able to easily shoot a 27.5" carbon-to-carbon arrow. FWIW, below is output from Pinwheel's spine calculator app for your setup.

 

[Maverick1]

It is not too late to change arrows. Plenty of practice time left in the next 8 weeks.

 

[ddavis_1313]

How many inches left and at what yardage? What is the centershot measurement of your rest (i.e., horizontal distance from inside of riser to centerline of arrow)? Mathews recommends a centershot measurement of 13/16" ± 1/16". If your rest is already close to that, you might be able to bring broadheads and field points together simply by shifting your rest a bit to the left. If you have to go far above/below 13/16", you should look into adjusting your top hats. Below are some handy reference charts for tuning.
View attachment 733733View attachment 733734

Spine charts/calculators are going to say you're on the weak side at your specs, but all spine calcs are approximations based on rules of thumb, not precise requirements for good arrow flight. Compound bows can typically handle a fairly wide range of spines, and I think you should be able to get your 340's to work. If you did want to stiffen the dynamic spine of your current arrows, trim them down a bit. With a 28.5" draw length, you should be able to easily shoot a 27.5" carbon-to-carbon arrow. FWIW, below is output from Pinwheel's spine calculator app for your setup.
View attachment 733732

I still don’t understand how pinwheel can give a spine calc without knowing more info.

Also, I’ve used archers advantage for the last 6 years on multiple bows and it’s always been spot on.


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[ddavis_1313]

It is not too late to change arrows. Plenty of practice time left in the next 8 weeks.

True but he doesn’t even know what arrow setup is optimum at this point even if he goes heavier.


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[Mighty Mouse]

I still don’t understand how pinwheel can give a spine calc without knowing more info.

Also, I’ve used archers advantage for the last 6 years on multiple bows and it’s always been spot on.


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Pinwheel asks for bow specs, weight of string components, arrow length, and weight of arrow components. What more does it need to know?

 

[Maverick1]

True but he doesn’t even know what arrow setup is optimum at this point even if he goes heavier.


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Ok. Fair enough. Say one week to decide on a new arrow comfiguration, assuming analysis paralysis doesn’t take over. An hour or two at the archery shop to get arrow cut to length, fletched, and inserts applied, pickup the next day. Seven weeks left then, still should be plenty of time…..