Any suggestions on where to buy a fully saddle mule

[aggieland]

We had another rodeo today with the 3 saddle mules we bought. And with three busted ribs it was a hell of s pounding. I have about decided to bite the bullet and spend some real money on a much safer animal. Thanks for your thoughts.. I'm located in North East Texas but am willing to travel a ways. Thanks

 

[wyosteve]

Depending on when you are wanting to get another mule, Jake Clark in Ralston, WY. (near Cody) has a Mule Days festival every Father's Day weekend. It culminates on Sunday with an auction of around 100 mules. If you get there earlier in the week, you have several days to observe, talk to owners and 'test ride' some of the mules. He has a website 'saddlemule.com' if you want to check it out.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Coyote Creek Mule Company has a good reputation:
Coyote Mule Company based in North Central Idaho — A reputable mule company with valued customers since 1964.

Ty Evans is another:
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[BigAntlerGetter]

There's a spring and fall auction in Brighton, co every year. Lot of Amish folks bring their mules and horses to it. Harley D Troyer auctions


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[MULEPACKHUNTER]

There are a lot of miles for sale in Arkansas and Tennessee, I would search their classifieds or Internet search for mules for sale in those states. There's a few in Arkansas I talked to where you can stay at their ranch and ride Dailey checking out mules. Can't beat that for knowing what your getting.
I would also suggest you do some research on side effects of ace, and bute in heavy doses. This is a big issue in equine sales and really bad at auctions.

 

[theleo91386]

Ray Clark is probably your best bet, he's the biggest name in the game but you're going to pay a lot for one of his animals.

How old are the animals you have? Did you look at them a few times before you bought them? How do they act in the corral if your dog makes it in there? I'm asking these question because I saw your other thread. I understand you dove in to the equine world starting with mules. I think you're starting to figure out just how much you bit off by starting with mules. Being new to horses is one thing, but mules are an extra step beyond that. I love using mules but I don't ever make the mistake of treating them like horses. As to you getting kicked in the chest, if it had been the dog that caused the mule to kick, it would have kicked the dog. If that mule has his ear back and lifts his leg a bit when your near the back end when he's tied up, he's going to nail you at some point if you don't pay attention to what he's telling you.

 

[aggieland]

Ray Clark is probably your best bet, he's the biggest name in the game but you're going to pay a lot for one of his animals.

How old are the animals you have? Did you look at them a few times before you bought them? How do they act in the corral if your dog makes it in there? I'm asking these question because I saw your other thread. I understand you dove in to the equine world starting with mules. I think you're starting to figure out just how much you bit off by starting with mules. Being new to horses is one thing, but mules are an extra step beyond that. I love using mules but I don't ever make the mistake of treating them like horses. As to you getting kicked in the chest, if it had been the dog that caused the mule to kick, it would have kicked the dog. If that mule has his ear back and lifts his leg a bit when your near the back end when he's tied up, he's going to nail you at some point if you don't pay attention to what he's telling you.

Thanks for the advice folks. I wanted to start off with a reputable outfit and spend more $ on something more trained and with a guarantee. But me and dad went into this together and he was stern on not spending much, afraid we may not enjoy it as much as we imagined. And I can't fault him for that at all. So we purchased these mules from people in the area off Craigslist. I believe the first mule we purchased was from a good person and did not drug the mule. He is a big draft mule and is actually the one that kicked me. It was dark and raining and yes the dog could have spooked him. I was probably just in the wrong place at the wrong time. The second mule we purchased is high headed and gives me the death stare. He will neck reign decently well but it will bolt and run at any moment. 3rd mule is a much smaller mule but does appear to have the most potential. I later learned the guys selling mules 2&3 knew each other and knew the mules. If they were drugged etc who knows. But I really want an animal I can walk out to, saddle up and ride off without needing 2-3 people to hold while putting the saddle on etc.. time will tell how it goes but I'm wounded and gun shy as hell now.

 

[MULEPACKHUNTER]

I pretty much run mules only but it sounds like if you want to stay low on price you may want to run horses. Way more horses for the job than mules these days.
Also all who are pushing jay Clark maybe have not been in the game , I have solid information that Clark auctions are no different than any with fake bidders moving prices and drugged animals.
Nothing wrong with smoothing out a good animal but half asleep bad animals is out of bounds. Just educate yourself on what to look for.

 

[aggieland]

I pretty much run mules only but it sounds like if you want to stay low on price you may want to run horses. Way more horses for the job than mules these days.
Also all who are pushing jay Clark maybe have not been in the game , I have solid information that Clark auctions are no different than any with fake bidders moving prices and drugged animals.
Nothing wrong with smoothing out a good animal but half asleep bad animals is out of bounds. Just educate yourself on what to look for.

What do you consider high for a good mule? I have considered looking at horses but my heart is sure set on owning a good mule. I won't be going to the mountains but once or twice a year. And probably riding in Oklahoma a few times with what they call mountains. Then the rest of the time would be spent riding around East Texas which is hardwoods and rolling hills. Maybe a good trained horse would work for my needs.

 

[theleo91386]

Pack mules can be had cheap, the sort of critter you're after will be in that 3,000+ range. What you need to try to find is a mule that's over 8 years old and have had lots of miles put on it.

My dad picked this guy up this spring. Supposedly he was a Ray Clark mule that ended up with an outfitter somewhere around Yellowstone. He was the dude mule for the clients of a more portly nature. This guy ended up being $3,700 and has been a great ride so far. My dad's main riding mule is coming around. My dad bought him when he was 4 years old. For the past 4 years I haven't had much good to say about him. Just a Dennis the menace sort of animal. Always busy and looking to catch you off guard. Now that he's 8 he's mellowing out. My dad's last riding mule was good to go from the start, BUT she's a once in a lifetime animal. I rode her for my elk season last year. She hadn't been in those particular mountains for three years. In a weeks worth of riding I corrected her only once.

Knowing what she turned out to be, at 6 years old she would have been a hell of a deal at $10,000. She's mostly retired now, but still gets out once in a while at 28 years old.

My point to all of this is mules are a commitment beyond what you might expect for horses. Good deals on riding mules will be in the $3,000 range or higher. If someone tries selling you a "broke" mule for under $2,000 you need to be suspicious as there's a good chance the seller is looking to move their problem on to you. Unless you know what you're getting, you should at least see the animal twice. Once we you're invited and once unexpectedly. Both times you need to watch them saddle and ride the animal. They're a niche animal that a lot of people think they can handle until they cant.

 

[aggieland]

Great post Leo, I have noticed one trend with mules and I guess the reason for it is pretty obevious. Most of the more popular or reputable mule trainers/salesmen are out West. Their are a few out this direction but of course the Rocky Mountains & national parks keep a big demand for good mules. I will keep looking and see what I can find, $3,000-$4,000 I could handle. The $8,000-$20,000 I will have to pass on. Either that or sell a kidney.

 

[missjordan]

Just like I mentioned in your last post, find a good mentor or a trainer and let them guide you to finding the right mule to fit your needs. And it's even a bonus if they have something to sell you that's already in their program. The problem your going to run into with your price point is you'll find mules that probably have some issues to work out or they need to be finished. Which isn't too big of a deal if you want to pay someone to train them which could run you $600-$800 a month for full time training. Since I'm assuming you just want to go have fun, I'd just buy one that's already finished and go ride and maybe spend some money on several lessons throughout the rest of the summer and fall. There's a reason people who invest in any equine are fully devoted to them, because they are a really expensive hobby and demand a lot of your time including weekends and Holidays.




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[theleo91386]

I think the thing you need to really keep in mind is that you don't just need a broke/trained horse or mule, you need a broke animal with miles and time on it. My expectations of a broke 4 year old animal and a broke 8+ year animal are completely different. A good broke 4 year animal is still going to be more of a hassle than you want. They're likely not going to stand well for you to get on, they'll spoke at stupid stuff, and they'll push their limits to see what they can get away with. An 8+ year old animal out of an outfitters string will have had been broke for about 4 years and had a tons of trail miles put on it with every sort of Jack wagon you can imagine having ridden it. These are what are fondly referred to as dude animals. Like the big black mule in the photo with my daughter on it, their main problem is that after years of having dudes ride them is that they have a tendency to just plug along on the trail, because nothing more has ever been asked of them. The down side to them is that there's a chance all you get from them is that they're a plug, but chances are good they will deliver more for you when asked. The biggest thing in your case is that you won't be sitting your but on a case of TNT ready to blow.

I still don't have a firm grasp on the mules that you bought but if they're younger animals being a pain to get on them and needing someone to hold them could just be just regular colt stuff. Like I said in my earlier post my dads main riding mule now is finally starting to mellow out, but when my dad first bought him it was definitely a case where I'd hold him while my dad got on. As soon as my dads butt hit the saddle that mule was on the move so my dad would make a quick loop, I'd hand him the string and down the road they go. It's just what you have to deal with when you have young animals. The flip side to that is with the dude animals you're going to be kicking them up so they go faster than plug speed, after a while that becomes nuisance unto itself. That red mule is an exception unto herself where her younger years weren't all that bad and even after 25 years of being ridden, she still covers ground at a good pace. After miles and miles she's as bomb proof as they come and if she won't do something or is acting goofy, there's a reason why. She's still the only animal I've been around that when we clear trails, you can put the lead rope across your shoulders as you walk up the trail cutting trees with a chainsaw and she'll just follow along behind you with not a care in the world.

Geographically you're in a tuff spot, there's not much call for mountain animals around your area. Mostly arena ponies or animals to work cattle. for a good mountain horse or mule you should plan on having to travel for it.

 

[aggieland]

Ages of these are 8 yrs 12&12 yrs. I think the 8 yr old is going to be just fine with a little work and the big draft mule might work out fine as well. I think I will try some of these other bits we acquired yesterday on him instead of the snaffle bit with big rings just to see if that makes much difference. He is a slow roller and likes to just follow behind the others but difficult to turn and go out Alone. Going to keep working with them and see if they make much progress. I do need to get me confidence back after I feel a little better, being timid is not a good thing around them.

 

[Wapiti66]

In 2013 I joined the equine world by buying my wife a horse, she was a city girl and always loved riding and wanted her own so when she hit 30 I bought her a gentle horse from a family friend I trusted...$1500. It took a little time establishing who was boss but he finally just flipped a switch and decided we were in charge and he was fine with that, he is a gentle guy that likes our attention and being worked. Fast forward a year and a half and a friend starts telling me about the oh-so-awesome trail mules that exist, how much they would improve my elk hunting, and I could give our horse a companion that my wife keeps telling me he needed. So I read a bunch of books, and start my search for the perfect trail mule. I come across an outfitter mule that packs anything from a sleeping bag to a bear, stands great for farrier, loads, gentle, no issues, anybody can ride. I drive 5 hours one way and bring home Rocky ($2700)....he is none of the above for me. He doesn't want to be caught, he throws his head and gives me the stink eye and is anything BUT GENTLE but I jump on and start riding. First ride went great, second he runs off with me and I chose to bail and save myself in a safe spot, shouldn't have done that but I learned. Another time he stops from a trot and backs up sending me over his head. Outfitter claimed he would return Rocky for another if things don't work out, but he wouldn't even return a phone call so he was not an honest guy. I start over with some ground work and gain a little respect but very slowly and then I got busy and discouraged so I turned him out to pasture for about 5 months. He had me pretty "gun shy" for awhile and as you've learned if you are nervous around mules they too will be nervous and that is a big hurdle to clear but must be dealt with before positive training can continue. January of this year I bought a mule from a friend I trust.....9 year old molly, gentle, rides good, just needs finished and more miles. A 12 hour drive one way and I have another mule, bring her home and start riding. She is everything he promised, needs miles and some attention to her ground manners but she loves her butt scratched and is naturally GENTLE. I have earned her trust and she is improving every time I work her, in return I have gained back my confidence. I now have called out Rocky for being a jerk and he now understands I am the boss so he is improving and hopefully will turn into a gentle mule that he was advertised to be.

My recommendations from my little experience is this: There are dishonest people out there trying to sell mules and horses, so ask for referances to see if other people who bought from this person ended up with animals that were as advertised when they got them home.

Some issues can be dealt with and conquered with a little guidance and a lot of patience, making the process even more rewarding, but you need to assess your animal and see if these issues are worth the hassle. My horse and molly are naturally GENTLE and enjoy the company of people, Rocky is not naturally this way and I can promise he takes 3x the work to get him to comply as the other two combined. So before you get too far into training an animal I'd only invest my time into animals that truly are gentle to be around and can be trusting of you. Otherwise you are putting a lot of time and effort into something that may only be a polished turd in the end. Its up to you to read your animals and see if there is a future in them. If you think there is future in them, get some videos, I like Brad Cameron so far, and keep working. If not, sell them and start fresh. I really suggest getting help from mule people, maybe private lessons or go to a clinic.

Again, my experience is very limited but Ive seen good and bad in the 3 animals I own and with the future going forward can make better buying decisions based on them. Just because you buy an outfitter mule that lives in the mountains doesn't mean you are getting a good animal, so be careful in your search. This guy I bought Rocky from sells mules nonstop on craigslist based out of New Mexico and they are all advertised just like him, as the perfect trail riding hunting mule so be cautious before loading up for a 10 hour drive to buy a mule.
As a side note I do not blame Rocky for our mishaps, but put most of the blame on my unexperienced self. Rocky knew I didn't know what I was doing and he was going to make my life miserable, and for awhile he succeeded until I regained my confidence with an animal that was gentle and liked being around people. Be honest about your own abilities and try to get with an experienced mule person to help you, it's a lot of work, patience, time, and money but it doesn't have to be dangerous. Good luck.

 

[theleo91386]

It definitely takes a certain mentality to get along with most mules, John mules especially. You have to be confident enough going in that when they try to start a bad habit with you that you stop it the first time. One of the mules that we packed for many years on almost every trip hurt my dad the worst I'd ever seen. The trainer he paid to put time in on her obviously didn't and the end result was my dad getting thrown in our round coral busting three ribs against his spine and tearing up his shoulder. That ticked him off enough that, that mule went on every trip that involved packing. She got the heaviest loads and never went empty. His words were "She's going and she's not going empty. I don't care if we pack rocks on her, but she's not going empty." She ended up being one of the most reliable pack mules he's had and she saved him a ticket from a game cop once. She was an animal that for the longest time we'd have to put her in a stall to catch until one year I got bored and decided I wanted to piss her off a bit. Every night when it game time to let the animals out in the pasture (we never had less than 7 head) I'd let the animals out one by one and she'd be the last. I wouldn't let her out with the others until she let me touch her neck. The first few times it took a couple of hours for me to do it, after a couple of months it got down to 10-15 minutes. Eventually it got to the point I was able to catch her in the open coral as long as I had other horses in there. My point to this is with mules you need to set a goal and achieve it every time. If you are going to go in and put a halter on one you can't stop because it's been 30 minutes and they're still doing laps around you. If it takes 2 hours to achieve your goal, then it takes 2 hours. Mules have this amazing ability to remember what they can get away with and if you let them get away with it once, the next time is going to be worse. Getting an animal that's gentle by nature is ideal but there are the ones out there that just pricks. If you learn how to get along with those ones, they can be excellent mules in their own rite and you won't feel guilty spending multiple 10 hour days in the saddle with them in a row. There are mules out there that just shouldn't be owned and quite a few that should never be more than pack animals, but if one will take you being in the saddle and you can both come to the understanding you're the boss, you've got a better ride than most. Use enough bit to be in control, it doesn't have to be the harshest in the world but you need to have control. Normally in my experience a solid curb bit is the place to start. Never use aluminum and if you can, try to find a bit that will work that has a copper roller in it.

 

[theleo91386]

One other thing, if you're really serious about spending the money for a good mountain mule. Find someone that is willing to take you and it on a ride for a day before you buy. Leave your trailer at home. If it's an animal you feel you can trust picking through rocks and shale at night, it's worth coming back and buying.

 

[Wapiti66]

"My point to this is with mules you need to set a goal and achieve it every time. If you are going to go in and put a halter on one you can't stop because it's been 30 minutes and they're still doing laps around you. If it takes 2 hours to achieve your goal, then it takes 2 hours. Mules have this amazing ability to remember what they can get away with and if you let them get away with it once, the next time is going to be worse," -Theleo

In my opinion this is the most important thing to remember when working with mules. Well said Theleo

 

[wyosteve]

Much very good advice in this thread. Kudos to those who took the time to post!

 

[theleo91386]

Case in point is the black pack mule in the one photo. Her and I had a drawn out disagreement one day when I needed to take a load of stuff into an elk camp. All the stuff was ready to go. Had my riding animal caught and tied up, ready to load same as the other two pack mules. I go to catch that black mule and she decided she didn't want to go. After I tried all my tricks I just said the heck with and put her in a smaller coral and she went round and around for 2 hours. I didn't work her into a frenzy or do anything to hurt her, but if she wasn't going to let me catch her she could keep jogging. She'd stop every couple of laps and look at me, when I'd walk towards her she'd backup, I'd twirl the lead rope a couple of times and she'd take a couple more laps. After 2 hours of that she finally just stood for me, I walked up, put the halter on and off we went like nothing happened. They're funny critters, sometimes they just fight you as much as they can and like flicking a switch, they're done. She's always a bit of a pain to catch but her and I have never had that long of a disagreement since. We get along and have no problems with each other. I know what to expect from her and she knows what to expect from me.

More often than not, she expects a full load from me.

My point of prick mules being good in their own rite is a good example with her. Not that she's a bad mule (the only thing not gentle about her is she'll come 100 yards across a pasture to stomp a dog) but with her if a pack slips or something goes wrong, she will BLOW and she won't stop until she can't do anything else. I watched her roll 100 yards down the side of a mountain at 2:00 AM because her pack that had a wet rolled up canvas tent across the top rolled on her. The pack rolling was likely from the animal behind reached for a mouth full of grass or was just being lazy and letting Katie tow her up the trail. None the less she blew up. I held horses as my dad and another guy walked back to fix the pack. About the time they got back to her she decided she wasn't done and started bucking again. She lost her footing and went rolling down the hill. For whatever reason the breakaway between her and the mule behind never broke. So there's one mule with a full load rolling down the mountain with a mule behind her that has the head and hind quarters of a 5 x 5 bull and the head tied on to the one rolling. The mule with the bull stayed on her feet the entire time. When my dad got down to them they got Katie untangled, reloaded, checked the load on the mule that had my bull and up the hillside they came. The mule that had my bull and stayed on her feet with half an elk not missing a step following Kate as she was rolling was the same mule that bucked off my dad years before and busted him up so bad. Despite how that mule would be have when you were around her without a pack on (snort, blow, shy away, just trying to act like a big bad a$$) we never had her blow up on us even when she had good excuses to. Weird loads slamming into corners of the trails (8 foot 2 x 8's one time for redecking a bridge) or things like a dead branch running up in between her butt and brichen, she would never blow. She would just stop and wait for us to come back and fix whatever was wrong and down the trail we'd go. A group that I ride with during the summer clearing trails, is comprised of mostly guys in their 50's and 60's on up to the oldest being 89 (he's riding a 4 year old mule this year that he just got broke) and have decades of experience packing and riding the mountains. Most of them have had mules throughout their lives that were bordeline unmanageable, but they kept them because in sketchy situations those were the only animals they trusted to get the job done. Like I said there are animals out there that just shouldn't be messed with, but a lot that are hard to handle can really shine when you need them. If you learn to respect them and understand that they'll make you pay if you're not paying attention, and when they do make you pay it's because you crossed the line that they set, it's your fault, then mules are good for you. If you're not fluent in profanity, you need to become fluent. Lots of mules don't understand words that are used on forums like this, but they understand getting a cussing that'd make a sailor blush.

They will do things that will tick you off and then just sit and stare at you laughing. If you're the kind of person that's intimidated by a 1,500 pound animal that is smart enough to do things to specifically piss you off, sell the mules and buy a horse. If your a person that's impressed that a 1,500 pound animal is smart enough to do things to deliberately mess with you and you enjoy ways of finding ways to mess with them, you'll love them. Even the best ones will do little things like waiting till you're not paying attention and finding low branch for you to ride into or spooking at the end of a cut log. They will do stuff just to bug you.

The reason mule guys put up with the knot head mules is that if you put in the time, eventually between, luck, opportunity, understanding and skill you'll have a chance at a mule like that red one. You'll find an animal with the rite build, temperament, and demeanor. You'll have the experience to know what you've got and the skills to use it to its full potential. In my family (my dad, sister and myself) we all know if there's a question about trail we are on and that mule is disagreement with us, judgment gets deferred to that mule. If I come to the fork in the trail heading back to camp and I'm 90 percent sure on which fork to take and that mule throws her head refusing to take that fork, I don't fight her because 9 times out of ten she's rite. One of the last times I've ridden her, I was riding with my dad and somehow a nice poky 3 foot limb about 2 inches in diameter got kicked up and found its way between her rear cynch and stomach. She just stopped, I got off, pulled the branch out and got back on. I looked back at my dad and said, if I was on any other animal I would have been air born because of that. He knew it, I knew it, but that mule won't buck or blow up. If her ears are up and she's looking around for something, we are looking for something. That mule has spotted more deer and elk than I ever have. My sister went for a ride one day with a friend to an old lodge a couple hours behind a wilderness boundary. She had her friend riding her horse and she was riding Ruby. On the way back Ruby started looking up the hill with her ears up. It was bugging my sister until she finally thought t try and find what Ruby was looking at. Ruby had pegged a cougar that was paralleling them 50 yards up the hill as the trail was having them ride along the river bottom. My sisters horse that her friend was riding never noticed a thing. The cougar was just checking them out and after 100 yards or so the cat went it's own way.

It takes a great horse to equal a good mule, but no horse will compare to a great mule. The old saying you can run a horse off a cliff but a mule will stop at the edge and send you flying is true. You'll never get a mule to do something stupid enough that it will obviously hurt itself. My recommendation though, is don't run an animal towards the edge of a cliff.