Another swaro ats 65 or kowa 77 question

[AZBULLCRAZY]

About to sell a gen2 razor 85 and go with either the swaro 65 ats with the wide angle 25-50 or kowa 77. To me the razor isnt that great. Im also looking to cut some weight but not sacrafice good glass. My hunting style is parking and day hunting hiking about 2 miles in and glassing etc. I know the kowa 77 is about 12 oz heavier than the 65 swaro. Is the 77 worth the extra weight? Im seeing if anyone here has ran both in the past and your thoughts. And not just from a road but packing it in a couple miles. I have been kinda leaning towards the 65 but my mind is blown from the 77 reviews. I also will pack swaro 15s and maven 9s on my neck. Will be for mule deer hunts in Idaho, Utah, Co etc. Thanks

 

[willfrye027]

I own the 77 and looked through an ATS 65mm. In midday lighting they were very close, maybe too close to tell. At lower light the Kowa started taking over. Neither is a bad choice

 

[AZBULLCRAZY]

I own the 77 and looked through an ATS 65mm. In midday lighting they were very close, maybe too close to tell. At lower light the Kowa started taking over. Neither is a bad choice

So for low light would you say the 77 is leaps above the 65? Sorry I know probably dumb question. I have just spent too much buying and selling optics and want to do the right one this time. And weight wise is the 77 still a tank for hiking? Thank you

 

[willfrye027]

So for low light would you say the 77 is leaps above the 65? Sorry I know probably dumb question. I have just spent too much buying and selling optics and want to do the right one this time. And weight wise is the 77 still a tank for hiking? Thank you

I would say in the last 5-15 minutes of light, the 77 would let you field judge a buck when the 65 would not make out the same detail. Depending on the conditions. They’re pretty close but the 77 definitely gives you something extra, if that makes sense.

I don’t feel like it’s a tank for hiking. It was on my back for 70 miles of backpacking/scouting this past week.

ergonomics I also prefer the kowa. The swaro focus ring is not for me. Causing more shaking while focusing which drove me nuts.

 

[AZBULLCRAZY]

I would say in the last 5-15 minutes of light, the 77 would let you field judge a buck when the 65 would not make out the same detail. Depending on the conditions. They’re pretty close but the 77 definitely gives you something extra, if that makes sense.

I don’t feel like it’s a tank for hiking. It was on my back for 70 miles of backpacking/scouting this past week.

ergonomics I also prefer the kowa. The swaro focus ring is not for me. Causing more shaking while focusing which drove me nuts.

Good to hear. I appreciate it sir.

 

[Vandal 44]

If counting oz is important go with the Swaro 65, but like the other people have said the Kowa 77 is going to be better at first and last shooting light.

I really like my Kowa 77 the extra weight is that bad


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[ZackP]

I’m glad you made this thread, I’m in the same dilemma with these exact two scopes.

I am also wondering if the 25-50 eyepiece on the Swaro would make this comparison even that much harder.

 

[Matt G.]

The extra plug for the 77 is FOV and extra zoom.

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[JNDEER]

Not a comment on direct comparison- but wearing glasses going from the razor 65 (gen1) to the stm 65 hd (wide lense) the eye relief is very noticeable for me and sometimes wish I could get the eye relief of the old razor.

 

[AZBULLCRAZY]

I’m glad you made this thread, I’m in the same dilemma with these exact two scopes.

I am also wondering if the 25-50 eyepiece on the Swaro would make this comparison even that much harder.

Yes I should have explained that too. If i go with the swaro it would be the wide angle piece for sure. Plus might be light enough to use on outsoorsman pistol grip instead of having to pack a panner as well.

 

[AZBULLCRAZY]

I own the 77 and looked through an ATS 65mm. In midday lighting they were very close, maybe too close to tell. At lower light the Kowa started taking over. Neither is a bad choice

By chance was the ATS the 20-60 or the 25-50 wide angle eyepiece? Im wondering if the wide angle is the way to go. Right now S&S has the 77 with the lens for sale at 1999.00 together. Im about to pull the trigger on it. My only and only holdoff is I run the outdoorsman pistol grip and figured the 65 at 48 ounces could still work for that but not sure if the 77 at 59 ounces would. Thanks

 

[ColoradoV]

I had this same choice to make on another spotter and in the end I went w the 77.. Looked through both quite a bit and for what I do the 77 is better IMO.

v

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

There was a comparison of spotters done by Backwoods Pursuit. It was a good read and recommend you take a look. It helped nudge me to pick up the Kowa 554 which I bought from Doug; awesome experience and great price.

My Jim White head works for my SLC 10s, SLC 15s, STX 65, STX 95 and my Kowa 554. Change your head to one that works for all of your optics.

My STX 65 is about the same weight as the Kowa 77 and it goes with me on most hunts. Load your pack to its normal carry weight and do a blind weight test. Have someone add an item to your pack that weighs the same as the ATS and then again with the 77. Can you personally tell the difference without being told which was which?

Buying Swarovski is never the “wrong” choice; however, it does not mean it is the “right” choice.

At this tier of product, you can always sell with little to no loss especially when picking one up on sale.

 

[BBob]

I've never compared the Swaro 65 to the Leica 77 but did own a Swaro 80. The 80 in lower light or poor conditions is much more usable at higher magnification. You can definitely tell. In good light not so much. I've owned both the 20-60 and 25-50W, hands down the 25-50 is a better lens overall. When push came to shove I grabbed the 65 I'd say about 75% of the time over the 80 just because it's lighter and more compact. The 80 got used more out of the truck or shorter hikes. I'd call a 2 mile hike short so I would have probably used the 80 for that.

 

[fatrascal]

In my humble opinion weight is a huge deciding factor. The 65mm is almost a pound less. And a fair comparison of optics and light gathering ability would be to compare the Kowa 77 to a swaro or leica 80. The 80mm objective will gather just as much or more light than the 77 and is more comparable in size. Also, again just my opinion, but when backpacking you already have a 10 power bino on your neck and a spotter that starts from 20 or 25 power on the low end of your zoom on the spotter so I feel that the 15 power bino's are not needed and add weight and take up space. I myself went through the hype of packing 10's, 15's and a spotter. Its too much. But I encourage and I know that you need to experience and find out for yourself. The 15's are awesome and are nice to keep in the truck for scouting or truck hunting but not backpacking. Another opinion i have is the 25x50 eyepiece on the spotter. It is very clear and taking video and pictures through it is beautiful. With that being said I prefer the 20x60 eyepiece. You get 10 more power of zoom on the high end which is not always needed but sometimes it is definitely needed. So I realize I'm full of opinions, lol, but I've already experienced what you are going through and I'm just trying to save you having to live through all the same experiences I've gone through. But it was fun experiences so you may as well go through it, ha ha. Looking forward to seeing you give advice years down the road on this same subject. Fatrascal.

 

[fatrascal]

I forgot to mention that the Outdoorsmans pistol grip can definitely handle the 65mm ats. Im pretty sure I used to use the same pistol grip with the 80mm about 20 years ago. But I'm a 65mm user for the last 15 years. Fatrascal.

 

[fatrascal]

Here are a couple of buddies using the Outdoorsmans pistol grip with their 65mm swarovski ats spotting scopes. I currently use a pinhead myself. Fatrascal

 

[AZBULLCRAZY]

I forgot to mention that the Outdoorsmans pistol grip can definitely handle the 65mm ats. Im pretty sure I used to use the same pistol grip with the 80mm about 20 years ago. But I'm a 65mm user for the last 15 years. Fatrascal.

Interesting. So this am I have been debating on selling all 3 of my glass, the maven 9x45, the swaro 15s and razor spotter. Then going with swaro 10x42 els and just the swaro 65 spotter. The mavens are great dont get me wrong but if I scale down to just one bino to glass with I feel the el 10s would be best. So in your opinion is the 20-60 in the 65 as comfortable to glass with as the 25-50? I don't digiscope really at all. Thanks sir

 

[tdhanses]

There is a new 77 in the classifieds for $1800

 

[tdhanses]

Also after owning the swaro 80hd ATS and WA eyepiece, I’d take my 77 over it any day.