And so the Debate Rages on (Alpha or Beta?)

Deadfall

WKR
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A great elk hunter and I believe he is or was a guide name Alan, I think his screen name on the forums was Ten Bear, once told me these types of bulls are called “shirker bulls”. Pretty much solitaire bulls that stay hidden and only come out to play once the lesser bulls get the cows rounded up and then take over these herds without ever having to make a sound. Have you heard this term used before?
That's exactly right.
 

Deadfall

WKR
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A great elk hunter and I believe he is or was a guide name Alan, I think his screen name on the forums was Ten Bear, once told me these types of bulls are called “shirker bulls”. Pretty much solitaire bulls that stay hidden and only come out to play once the lesser bulls get the cows rounded up and then take over these herds without ever having to make a sound. Have you heard this term used before?
Alot of times those bulls don't even gather the herd. They live in travel routes on a bench. When cows come by they scent check then do thier thing, go back to bed.
Wait on next bunch to pass by.

Sometimes a handful of cows will live with them most of year. After Porno season is over cows move on. Come back following year.

As reclusive as spider was, he was only 7 ish.

I've seen thise guys up higher then sheep live. It's crazy the places they can call home.

I've also seen them hold up in poop holes a half mike from roads.
 

Scoot

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I could but wrong, but I think Valerius Geist is the person who first coined the term "shirker" regarding critters who were reclusive and stayed hidden a lot more than their compadres.
 
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trophyhill
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I could but wrong, but I think Valerius Geist is the person who first coined the term "shirker" regarding critters who were reclusive and stayed hidden a lot more than their compadres.
I don't doubt that a bit. Now im gonna have to dust my Geist encyclopedia off and find it lol.
 
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trophyhill
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I could but wrong, but I think Valerius Geist is the person who first coined the term "shirker" regarding critters who were reclusive and stayed hidden a lot more than their compadres.
I should mention that Scoot and i were talking about bugling in close and it sends the bulls into the next county more often than not. That conversation is what spawned this thread.
 

Scoot

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One clarification on what trophyhill said above-- THIS year all my calling sent elk going the opposite direction. Cow call, bugle aggressively, whatever- they just moved away from me. Didn't matter how close or far I was, how aggressive or timid the bull sounded, whether he had cows or didn't... they just made a 150ish yard buffer between us, no matter what I did. It was frustrating and totally different than when I've hunted elsewhere. I've had very good luck calling in elk, but this year was kick to the nuts after kick to the nuts...
 
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One clarification on what trophyhill said above-- THIS year all my calling sent elk going the opposite direction. Cow call, bugle aggressively, whatever- they just moved away from me. Didn't matter how close or far I was, how aggressive or timid the bull sounded, whether he had cows or didn't... they just made a 150ish yard buffer between us, no matter what I did. It was frustrating and totally different than when I've hunted elsewhere. I've had very good luck calling in elk, but this year was kick to the nuts after kick to the nuts...
We had three different bulls that would talk to us but always moved away at the same time or shit up once we got in under 150. They had cows. Elk were in different areas than normal this year too.
 

5MilesBack

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Lol on the rag horns need not apply. can you expand on your experience? Give us some situational encounters if you could. Perhaps what you did to locate a particular bull and what you did next. Maybe throw in time of month, day, temps, did he have cows etc
I've already said too much. I'll leave it at that. But this year I did have one day late in the season that absolutely blew my mind. It was insane. One day that made the whole season, or a whole slew of seasons worthwhile.
 
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trophyhill
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I've already said too much. I'll leave it at that. But this year I did have one day late in the season that absolutely blew my mind. It was insane. One day that made the whole season, or a whole slew of seasons worthwhile.
I had a few days like that on the Western Slope back in 2017 when I was working over there. That’s when I discovered on accident an under used and misunderstood sound that I now use every year. Damn…….now I’ve said too much 😉
 
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