And so the Debate Rages on (Alpha or Beta?)

[trophyhill]

Are your calls loud, obnoxious, intimidating and challenging? Or are they squeaky, soft and feminine? There are podcasters, bloggers and pay sites who swear by cow calling, most recently Snyder jumping on that train, and then you have the flip side where bugling is best.

What has worked more often than not for you where bulls are concerned?

 

[ElkNut1]

Bull sounds David, absolutely no comparison on OTC elk hunts as well as the few draws I've been on.

When I refer to bull sounds I'm not talking about the classic TV bugle! (grin)

ElkNut

 

[Bubblehide]

Tactics, as in good tactics. Knowing how to read the situation, what they are saying, if they are talking, or not talking, and knowing what to say to them.

 

[Radosilver]

Agree with Bubblehide. There’s a time and place for everything.

 

[elkguide]

I always try and talk to the elk. Each scenario is different depending on the bull and his attitude.

Many times, I have called in a bull using cow talk, different sounds depending on time of year and his attitude/demeanor. Other times, I have been able to challenge a bull to come and kick my butt.

When I have a bull that has a bad attitude, I find that mimicking him and especially cutting him off after a couple rounds of back-and-forth bugling works well. Mix that in with some tree rubbing and ground thumping and then you have a bull right in your lap.

 

[Deadfall]

What if there is no right answer? It doesn't matter one bit if you don't know what or why you saying when you say it.

The fancy people are full of caca. There is no magic call. Old saying sun shines on a dog butt once in awhile. Is true.

For guys who don't really know what or why they calling. Probably cow calling is more effective.

For guys who understand the biology and environmental circumstances around tge animal calling. They most likely use both.

With elk, there about a week every year where anything works. Some guys think that's the only time you can successfully call elk. It's false, but that's what some people believe.

Same as some believe you can't call elk down hill. It's false.

Best suggestion. Go learn how elk communicate with each other. Then go start figuring out the pitches, tones, cadences, timing. All that.

You'll find that not trying to talk to actual elk is best way to find them. Meaning...just be a little band of elk doing elk things. Real elk will find you.

That band of elk is not making the same sounds in same sequences in afternoon they are in mornings. Different tones and pitches in September then late october..

Also the age class of bull makes a huge difference in tactics.

 

[Deadfall]

Really there is no debate. Just guys that don't understand what thier doing

 

[TradArcher]

Where I live I bugle and cow call from the back porch - it's a hoot with a resident elk herd so close.

Where I hunt any call will spook elk and deer so I don't call - or carry calls - at all! Too many other hunters calling I guess. Last year there was a group of guys bugling horribly all over the hills, it was kinda funny but you had to stay away from their area even to find game. At least it was easy to tell where they were though - that was helpful.

I used to carry calls and occasionally bugle or cow call until last year when the buglers showed up - after that and a few other cases of deer and elk spooking at any call I just figured that in my area it doesn't make sense to call when hunting.

 

[trophyhill]

Where I live I bugle and cow call from the back porch - it's a hoot with a resident elk herd so close.

Where I hunt any call will spook elk and deer so I don't call - or carry calls - at all! Too many other hunters calling I guess. Last year there was a group of guys bugling horribly all over the hills, it was kinda funny but you had to stay away from their area even to find game. At least it was easy to tell where they were though - that was helpful.

I used to carry calls and occasionally bugle or cow call until last year when the buglers showed up - after that and a few other cases of deer and elk spooking at any call I just figured that in my area it doesn't make sense to call when hunting.

That’s a great point and 1 worth mentioning. Pressure/calling and what the effects are on elk. Do these called too bulls have a short memory and running to calls a day or 2 later after being called in and busting the hunter?

 

[Deadfall]

That’s a great point and 1 worth mentioning. Pressure/calling and what the effects are on elk. Do these called too bulls have a short memory and running to calls a day or 2 later after being called in and busting the hunter?

Change the pitch, tones and cadences of the calls.

Everyone runs around with one call and one horn tube of some sort. They scream through the tube then cow call.

Elk ar very smart. To your point I've experienced exactly what your talking about.

That was going on 20 years ago. Thats When I started changing how, when, I call.
This translates to deer, turkeys, wolves also

 

[Deadfall]

I still have a bat for a tube. From time to time I still use my old hose whistles. They work fabulously in high pressure areas.

Plus atleast a dozen other calls of sorts. Don't use the same ones 2 days in a row.

Manage to call in elk when everyone else says there are none.

I intentionally try not to sound like the world champion guys. Those sounds do work at times on certain classes of bulls.

Very very seldom will you get any action out of 10 or 12 year old bull by bugling.

Yes that age class exists on public land. They behave almost exactly like old wise whitetails. They will hunker down and let folks go cruising right on by tooting thier brains out

To each thier own.

 

[trophyhill]

I still have a bat for a tube. From time to time I still use my old hose whistles. They work fabulously in high pressure areas.

Plus atleast a dozen other calls of sorts. Don't use the same ones 2 days in a row.

Manage to call in elk when everyone else says there are none.

I intentionally try not to sound like the world champion guys. Those sounds do work at times on certain classes of bulls.

Very very seldom will you get any action out of 10 or 12 year old bull by bugling.

Yes that age class exists on public land. They behave almost exactly like old wise whitetails. They will hunker down and let folks go cruising right on by tooting thier brains out

To each thier own.

That’s exactly the bull I’m looking for

 

[BRTreedogs]

I say sit on a south face, about 3 hrs before dark, there won't be any elk on that hill in 80 degrees. No way, if there was nobody would believe you bulls don't do that.
So just sit down and kick up your feet, have a snack. Throw out a location bugle every hour in hopes to get a bull across in the north face, at least a starting point for the morning.

Ohh wait clop clop there is one 30 yards away. He seen you first.

Ask me how I know that works.

 

[Deadfall]

That’s exactly the bull I’m looking for

Hunt small. Everyone wants to glass big country.

Most guys don't have the patience to match wits with grandpa. I mean any bull over 9 yrs old.

Itll be the most frustrating/satisfying thing you'll do.

Finding them isn't real hard. Once you figure out where to look

 

[Jethro]

Bull sounds have worked for me most often.

The truth is everything works.....................sometimes. Have to figure it out season by season/day by day/hour by hour. 2020 couldn't get a bull to commit no matter what sounds we made. 2022 same unit, bull sounds were the ticket. Bull sounds combined with raking brought many opportunities. Even glunking was pulled out of the bag of tricks. It worked.

 

[5MilesBack]

Are your calls loud, obnoxious, intimidating and challenging?

Yes. That's me. And for me, there is absolutely no comparison in results.......it's not even close. And raghorns need not respond. And the great thing is.......they normally don't.

 

[Next Ridge]

Are your calls loud, obnoxious, intimidating and challenging? Or are they squeaky, soft and feminine? There are podcasters, bloggers and pay sites who swear by cow calling, most recently Snyder jumping on that train, and then you have the flip side where bugling is best.

What has worked more often than not for you where bulls are concerned?

Tend to lean towards more aggresive. This year had to change up though, went the last week of season (usually go 3rd week) and bulls were definitely cowed up. Ended up with several bulls taking cows away and having to change tactics to get ahead, get in close, wait for them to bed.

The satellites weren’t really into coming in either, seemed like they had just accepted their lot in life by that point. Ha.

I was surprised by how cowed up everything was already, but maybe it’s always normal by last week and I just hadn’t hunted it before to know

 

[trophyhill]

Change the pitch, tones and cadences of the calls.

Everyone runs around with one call and one horn tube of some sort. They scream through the tube then cow call.

Elk ar very smart. To your point I've experienced exactly what your talking about.

That was going on 20 years ago. Thats When I started changing how, when, I call.
This translates to deer, turkeys, wolves also

Yes. That's me. And for me, there is absolutely no comparison in results.......it's not even close. And raghorns need not respond. And the great thing is.......they normally don't.

Lol on the rag horns need not apply. can you expand on your experience? Give us some situational encounters if you could. Perhaps what you did to locate a particular bull and what you did next. Maybe throw in time of month, day, temps, did he have cows etc

 

[Deadfall]

The spider bull is great example of old ghosts.

15 guys watching that bull everyday for months. Waiting on a hunter to show up. They lost him for a month or better.
Noone is bugling a bull Like that into bow range.

Bulls like that are an entirely different level of chess match.

Matter of fact. Once those guys reach a certain age they don't bugle. Bout most you'll get is a few grunts.

 

[trophyhill]

The spider bull is great example of old ghosts.

15 guys watching that bull everyday for months. Waiting on a hunter to show up. They lost him for a month or better.
Noone is bugling a bull Like that into bow range.

Bulls like that are an entirely different level of chess match.

Matter of fact. Once those guys reach a certain age they don't bugle. Bout most you'll get is a few grunts.

A great elk hunter and I believe he is or was a guide name Alan, I think his screen name on the forums was Ten Bear, once told me these types of bulls are called “shirker bulls”. Pretty much solitaire bulls that stay hidden and only come out to play once the lesser bulls get the cows rounded up and then take over these herds without ever having to make a sound. Have you heard this term used before?